Can I hit weapon in hand using ray spell?

[Sverv]

Can I destroy weapon in hands of enemy with spells, like Scorching ray or Orb of acid? And if Ranged Sunder applied to arrows, can I Sunder with melee piercing weapon, like Spear?

 

[irdeggman]

A warlock's EB can and it is treated as a ray. So there is at least some precedent for it.

From the FAQ

The warlock’s eldritch blast description states that it causes half damage to objects. Can a wielded weapon or worn armor be the target of an eldritch blast? Does an eldritch blast cause half damage to constructs?
The eldritch blast can target an object, including a wielded weapon or suit of armor. A construct is a creature, not an object, and thus suffers normal damage from the eldritch blast.

 

[krupintupple]

interesting.

let's say a PC warlock was unhappy with the +1 unholy desiccating greatsword that a blackguard was using against her allies, and decided to attempt to blast the weapon as opposed to the blackguard - are there any official rules for this, as sunder appears to be melee-only.

 

[Darklone]

Ranged Sunder in Complete Warrior? The only problem I see is with the slashing, bludgeoning or piercing damage... since these rays aren't either.

 

[werk]

Oh FAQ...

 

[Piratecat]

Oh FAQ...

...you make me cry.

Being able to target one object opens up a big 'ole can of worms. Is it supported in the core rules, sans FAQ?

 

[Arkhandus]

Well, from the magic chapter, and the fact that ray spells generally don't list a target, just an effect, I think you can target anything within range. And it says you aim a ray like a ranged weapon.

Ray
Some effects are rays. You aim a ray as if using a ranged weapon, though typically you make a ranged touch attack rather than a normal ranged attack. As with a ranged weapon, you can fire into the dark or at an invisible creature and hope you hit something. You don’t have to see the creature you’re trying to hit, as you do with a targeted spell. Intervening creatures and obstacles, however, can block your line of sight or provide cover for the creature you’re aiming at.

 

[Deset Gled]

Being able to target one object opens up a big 'ole can of worms. Is it supported in the core rules, sans FAQ?

As Arkhandus mentioned, a ray is a ranged attack. The SRD supplies rules for attacking a worn or carried object, but only with a melee attack that deals slashing or bludgeoning damage (Sunder). It also has rules for determining the AC of an unattended object, and specifies that these rules apply to ranged attacks with the stipulation that "certain weapons just can’t effectively deal damage to certain objects" (Exploration, Breaking and Entering). There are no rules for attacking an attended object at range. The only place I know of that has such rules is Complete Warrior (mentioned above), which requires a feat to do it.

In theory, it makes sense to me that you should be able to deliver a ray spell as a touch attack (against a person or object). Just like you can physically hold a crossbow against someone's neck or hold a gun to someone's head, you could hold your finger against an object while casting the spell and deliver it without any distance between the caster an the object. In practice, this cannot be done in combat because both the spell and the touch/sunder attack would require a standard action. Unfortunately, there is no way to "hold a charge" for a ray in the way you can for a touch spell. I might be convinced to allow it if the ray was quickened and the caster made a sunder attack with an unarmed strike. I would say it falls under the umbrella of ad hoc simultaneity.

 

[werk]

Well, from the magic chapter, and the fact that ray spells generally don't list a target, just an effect, I think you can target anything within range. And it says you aim a ray like a ranged weapon.

I want to target faces!

If I can target a small dagger closed in a halfling's fist, why can't I shoot the giant right between the eyes?

 

[eamon]

My preferred answer: the game mechanics don't support it well, so don't do it. Tough luck.

Technically, unfortunately, there do exist rather badly designed sunder mechanics which work even worse for ranged weapons, and should not be combined with rays, since that's just asking for trouble.

Next, remember that weapons will have quite a bit of hardness, and that most energy types only to half or worse damage vs. items, and even acid, which does full damage, does not bypass hardness.

But the real problem is that the sunder rules are just badly tacked on. They're so rarely used that almost no creature or player is well prepared against them, and that makes them pretty arbitrary, and not very fun. Then there's the problem that there isn't really a good defense against sundering - so sundering is often successful. You may be incapable of striking a monk with a high wisdom with your ray due to his high touch AC, but oddly enough, his belt doesn't benefit from his monk AC or any other touch AC modifiers, only from his dex. It's almost impossible to sunder a high-attack bonus fighter's weapon since that involved an opposed attack roll (good luck, unless you yourself are such a fighter as well), but it's trivially easy to sunder his bracers.

Sundering rules don't work. I just ban sundering completely from the game and sweep it under the "no mechanics" rug. It's just too arbitrary.