D&D 5E Companion thread to 5E Survivor - Subclasses (Part XV: The FINAL ROUND)


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Tonguez

A suffusion of yellow
I’m actually finding it hard to vote, theres nothing really outsanding here and the 50 points isnt helping. I think I may just wait until a few more get whittled down…
 


Undrave

Hero
Little curious as to why you think this? The 5e cleric has more unique abilities than almost any other previous edition afaict (prolly not more than 4e because of how 4e was structured). Not that that guarantees non-boringness or anything, but...
It just doesn't feel like an interesting support class while playing it. You fire off your Bless or Shield of Faith or whatever and then you just waste you time doing pitiful damage for the rest of the fight while maintaining your Concentration. There's no real engagement in the fight, you might need to throw a healing words or something but that's about it.

The best pick for Spells at early level are so blindingly obvious that you always end up with the 80% same spell list. The PHB only has ONE attack Cantrip (Toll the Dead should have been in the PHB for both Cleric and Bard) so if you want to be a spellcaster, I hope you like Sacred Flame (I don't)!

And the Cleric rituals suck.
 

renbot

Explorer
Not a single option here is my favourite subclass.

Sadness abounds.

Right? My opinion on the finalists runs from "meh" to "seriously??"

Half full glass: with a 50 point start this will go on forever which is one less thread for weeks to distract me as I'm getting ready (read: already late) for work every morning.
 



OB1

Jedi Master
Had a tough time figuring out how I'm voting in this, as in general the list shook out for me where the subclasses I like more are attached to classes I like less, and vice versa. In the end, I've decided to ignore the class and am just voting on which subclasses I like best.
 




Gradine

Final Form (she/they)
50 is definitely a bummer, but c'est la vie.

What I can't wrap my head round is with so many interesting choices abounding some folks are up-voting literally the most boring archetype in the game (that doesn't start with "C" and end with "hampion", anyway)
 


Aldarc

Legend
50 is definitely a bummer, but c'est la vie.

What I can't wrap my head round is with so many interesting choices abounding some folks are up-voting literally the most boring archetype in the game (that doesn't start with "C" and end with "hampion", anyway)
You mean the Abjuration Wizard? Yeah, no idea why anyone would upvote Wizards.
 

Shadowdweller00

Adventurer
The Abjuration Wizard isn't my personal favorite Wizard subclass; but it's still a Wizard (the bestest class ;)) and there are some interesting tricks one can pull off with it. I know a number of people who swear by it. Preventing damage to another PC feels pretty awesome to me personally. (When performed in play)

The Oath of Ancients paladin...oy. Just, oy. Reasonably fun to play, adds good spells. HOWEVER, Nature's Wrath is a newbie-trap level ability: Not a bad effect, but not worth a full action IMO. Particularly when the subclass already gets Ensnaring Strike. I think Aura of Warding (half damage from all spells to all allies within 10 feet) is problematic, when coupled with base paladin Aura of Protection (charisma bonus to all saves). It's a headache as a DM and, since it indirectly limits the type of challenges the party faces, not something I really want to see as a fellow player either. There are SOME ways around it (such as using vastly more powerful enemy casters than one otherwise would)...but these introduce new problems. Other classes sometimes possess vaguely comparable defenses; but never multitarget, always on, resource and action-free abilities.

Plus Paladin as a class seems in my experience, ironically, to attract more than its share of players or characters who feel entitled to bully other PCs. Something about how its written.
 
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CleverNickName

Limit Break Dancing
50 is definitely a bummer, but c'est la vie.

What I can't wrap my head round is with so many interesting choices abounding some folks are up-voting literally the most boring archetype in the game (that doesn't start with "C" and end with "hampion", anyway)
I'm glad I didn't go with 100 points each (I had seriously considered it.) But even with 50 starting points, the first elimination took less than 30 hours. On a major US holiday, no less.

Not sure what to say about the upvoting habits, though. If I had to rank the surviving subclasses in order of Most Interesting to the Least Interesting, it would look something like this:
Tempest Domain: because storm gods are best gods
School of Abjuration: the best offense is a good defense
Pact of the Fiend: more flavor and lore in its little finger than everything below combined
Oath of Ancients: the best "spell sword," the best "ranger," and the best "eldritch knight," rolled into one.
Thief: it's the best non-magic subclass so far. That's about all I can say about it, though.
Circle of the Shepherd: eh, kinda boring, but at least you get fun pets.
Divine Soul: so you want to play a cleric but you don't want to be the cleric? Weird flex but okay.
Gloom Stalker: you chose this over an actual rogue?
Battle Master: you could have played an Eldritch Knight but chose Extra Dice instead. Hooray?
Way of the Kensei: I mean, at least it's not YAFRMC (Yet Another Fighter/Rogue MultiClass).
Path of the Totem Warrior: it's not terrible, just feels really fiddly and watered-down.
College of Lore: If I were going to play a bard (I'm not), I wouldn't pick the magical librarian.
 
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Gradine

Final Form (she/they)
Tempest Domain: because storm gods are best gods
School of Abjuration: the best offense is a good defense
Pact of the Fiend: more flavor and lore in its little finger than everything below combined
Oath of Ancients: the best "spell sword," the best "ranger," and the best "eldritch knight," rolled into one.
Thief: it's the best non-magic subclass so far. That's about all I can say about it, though.
Circle of the Shepherd: eh, kinda boring, but at least you get fun pets.
Divine Soul: so you want to play a cleric but you don't want to be the cleric? Weird flex but okay.
Gloom Stalker: you chose this over an actual rogue?
Battle Master: you could have played an Eldritch Knight but chose Extra Dice instead. Hooray?
Way of the Kensei: I mean, at least it's not YAFRMC (Yet Another Fighter/Rogue MultiClass).
Path of the Totem Warrior: it's not terrible, just feels really fiddly and watered-down.
College of Lore: If I were going to play a bard (I'm not), I wouldn't pick the magical librarian.
See, this list matches my expectations to a tee; some archetypes you hate, some you love, and snoozy lil Thief smack dab in the middle.
 

See, this list matches my expectations to a tee; some archetypes you hate, some you love, and snoozy lil Thief smack dab in the middle.
I think, with this larger pool of points, positive feelings will start to take on greater importance. With only 20 points, it takes 4-5 people deciding they dislike something for it to go from "doing really well" to "the new weakest link." And as soon as that weakness shows, dogpiles start. It happened to the Circle of Stars and the Circle of Wildfire, it happened to Hexblade, etc.

When it takes 12 back-to-back downvotes for a similar effect to occur, things are blunted severely. Sudden, dramatic weakness doesn't really happen; it takes days, perhaps even a week for something to fall that far. There's more than enough time for a rebound reaction to slow things down even further--which dissuades sudden, precipitous falls. Even with one of the options being outright openly hated by most voters, it still took more than a full day--in other words, three rounds of voting--for the first thing to be voted off, and another couple days (mid-Sunday) for the other "everyone hates it" option to disappear. Other than the two obvious unfavorites, we're still at least another day, possibly two, away from eliminating anything.

At this point, we're 228 votes in (out of an absolute maximum of ~700, depending on how many "wasted" votes occur when options are eliminated.) We've only eliminated two, and only gotten close to eliminating another two.
 
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Aldarc

Legend
The Abjuration Wizard isn't my personal favorite Wizard subclass; but it's still a Wizard (the bestest class ;)) and there are some interesting tricks one can pull off with it. I know a number of people who swear by it. Preventing damage to another PC feels pretty awesome to me personally. (When performed in play)

Plus Paladin as a class seems in my experience, ironically, to attract more than its share of players or characters who feel entitled to bully other PCs. Something about how its written.
IME, wizard as a class in my experience attracts more than its share of players or characters who feel like they are entitled to be the best class or gods who lord over other players and dominate play at the table through their magic. 🙄
 

DND_Reborn

The High Aldwin
IME, wizard as a class in my experience attracts more than its share of players or characters who feel like they are entitled to be the best class or gods who lord over other players and dominate play at the table through their magic. 🙄
That is some pretty crappy experiences then. :( IME they are nothing like that.
 

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