D&D General Creating a Pride Flag for my D&D setting

[Yaarel]

Thoughts about this elven

I still think you're thinking too much about gender identity and sexuality.

Gender and sexuality and romance are primal and central to the life experience of many humans.

These arent the only parts of a human, but they are a vital part for many.

The first question to be asked is, do dwarfs (or whatever) actually care about these things all that much, and if so, why? I don't want to get too much into the real world here, but with real-life humans,

Fair question.

Norsesque dwarves are manifestations of mineral patterns in rock and mud. (In this way, they can also be manifestations from gold, iron, mud, and so on.)

But mostly, the Norse dwarves are fates, like the Norse elves are. However, where the elves manifest successful impactful fates, the dwarves manifest unsuccessful futile fates. A curse from a dwarf is a terrifying thing. That said, to cause an ill fate to enemies can be useful. Occasionally, certain dwarf individuals are powerful allies, and makers of powerful weapons, and other ways to subdue the fates of foes. Even the granting of strength to the aesir is understood indirectly as a gift from a dwarf to overpower ones enemies.

As minerals, dwarves tend to lie there deathlike. On the one hand, this comes with a reputation for being unsocial. On the other hand, this is often understood as being in a magical trance, projecting their minds elsewhere, whence the Norse dwarves are powerful mages.

Norse dwarves gender-divide in the same way Norse cultures do. As do elves. It is specifically the women dwarves who are nornir fates.

In the sense of being still, the dwarves might not enjoy festivals, but they do seek out mates to be still with one.

Also, like Norse culture, the dwarves are family oriented, with ones extended family being the primary social structure. Each family has their own militia (whence family feuds). Local governments are mainly voluntary alliances between families. The family unit includes a way of life that seeks out a mate.

problems arise because of toxic masculinity (real men are on top and must act like manly men and only be interested in manly things, while women are inferior), or that same-sex couples don't produce babies who grow up to be members of your religion or who pay their taxes.

There are healthy ways to express ones masculinity or femininity. Dysfunctionality is a separate issue. When gender-expectations interfere with an individuals ability to express ones whole self, there can be toxic masculinity or toxic femininity. A classic simple example of toxic masculinity is when being "macho" means not going to the hospital or failing to bond with close friends. There are other ways that gender can interfere.

But again, there are healthy, loving, and fun ways to be masculine or feminine − or genderqueer.

So take that to a fantasy world. Would dwarfs (or elves, or orcs, or even fantasy humans) care about these things?

Norse elves definitely care about sexuality, falling in love, and having children − all understood as aspects of a persons fate. Some Norse stories are about one elf causing the fate of an other elf to fall in love with someone, with generational consequences.

Norse Dwarves is a question. There is a story of Thor being terrified when a dwarf sought to marry his daughter. Presumably, Thor understood this to mean something like his daughter being entombed in stone.

Still, the seeking out a mate is notable.

An example of toxic dwarfilinity might have nothing to do with ones sex or gender but might say that anyone who isn't a really good miner, smith, or brewer (or in another of a small handful of properly dwarfy jobs) is a weak excuse for a dwarf and may be looked down upon in dwarf society--perhaps even to the point that basketweavers and cheesemakers are at risk of getting beat up by gangs of drunken miners, or not having their marriages seen as being as valid as "real" dwarfs. If you also go with the common idea of dwarf clans having familial trades--if you're born to a cheesemaker, then a cheesemaker you shall be--then here's where you get the type of bigotry where you can have pride flags and have them mean something. You don't have to have dwarfs also caring one whit about their sex or romantic lives or how they identify.

In sum, the extended family clan includes the impulse to find a mate and to parent a child. But how "festive" are the dwarves? I assume there are many individual dwarves who attend the fey elf Revelry. But maybe the dwarves dont participate as a dwarven cultural contingency.

 

[Yaarel]

* besides the classic clear, there’s amethyst, citrine, ametrine, rose, agate, jasper, prasiolite, chert, onyx, carnelian, smoky, flint, chrysoprase, chalcedony, rutilated, tourmalated and more.

I was going by your suggestion that because darkvision is only shades of gray, the color would be less relevant. The dwarves are gemologists and the stones are probably of beautiful color, whether vivid or subtle. But perhaps, the color itself wouldnt be part of the symbolism for romance.

 

[Yaarel]

Thoughts about this elven flag?

Its colors correspond to something like the sun shining thru leaves, and includes both the (Norsesque) skyey sun elves and the (Celtesque) earthy moon elves.

I figure the sun elves traditionally convey colors via auras of light (cantrips, lanterns, etcetera), while the moon elves traditionally convey colors via head wreaths of flowers and leaves. But everyone uses flags, banners, and ribbons, makeup, and at the Revelry individuals do whatever they want.

 

[Faolyn]

Thoughts about this elven

Gender and sexuality and romance are primal and central to the life experience of many humans.

These arent the only parts of a human, but they are a vital part for many.

This is very true. However, elves and dwarfs aren't human.

There's two basic ways of going about creating D&D race.

One way is to treat these beings as, basically, alien races. They happen to look very much like humans, have some interests in common, and can maybe even interbreed with them, but they're not human. They're aliens. There's no reason to assume they would feel the same way as humans do about anything.

The second way is to treat these beings as mythical creatures. In this case, the race is actually a reflection of humans, or some aspect of humans. They're not really aliens with their own biology so much as the creation of storytelling. In this case, there's two options: (1) there's no reason to assume that they wouldn't feel the same way as humans do, unless it's necessary for the story (such as a race where the women are dominant and the men are second-class citizens). In this case sure, LGBT+ folks may very well have been or still are oppressed by the cishet majority, and thus use flags or codes to express themselves; or (2) they are vastly, magically different, such as deciding that all dwarfs are male and they reproduce by carving a new dwarf out of stone, or that all elves can switch between genders at will and simply don't have any sort of gender identity--it just depends on what bits they want to have at that moment in time.

These are both perfectly valid interpretations, but they're also so different that you really need to establish how you're doing your worldbuilding before you decide how the races view LGBT+ people.

There are healthy ways to express ones masculinity or femininity. Dysfunctionality is a separate issue. When gender-expectations interfere with an individuals ability to express ones whole self, there can be toxic masculinity or toxic femininity. A classic simple example of toxic masculinity is when being "macho" means not going to the hospital or failing to bond with close friends. There are other ways that gender can interfere.

But again, there are healthy, loving, and fun ways to be masculine or feminine − or genderqueer.

Also true, but that's not what I was talking about. As others have said, there's no need for pride in something if that something wasn't oppressed. If dwarfs or elves or whatever have healthy attitudes about gender (especially if the society doesn't have distinct gender roles), then a nonbinary person or transgender person would likely have no real reason for an symbol. Now, if the society did have gendered modes of dress, then there would likely be an NB style of clothes to go along with the masculine and feminine styles, but that would be more style than a symbol. If a society does have distinct gender roles, then either transgender people would be disliked or would be simply adopted into the correct gender, depending on how you want to do it..

 

[Yaarel]

This is very true. However, elves and dwarfs aren't human. There's two basic ways of going about creating D&D race.

One way is to treat these beings as, basically, alien races. They happen to look very much like humans, have some interests in common, and can maybe even interbreed with them, but they're not human. They're aliens. There's no reason to assume they would feel the same way as humans do about anything.

The second way is to treat these beings as mythical creatures. In this case, the race is actually a reflection of humans, or some aspect of humans. They're not really aliens with their own biology so much as the creation of storytelling.

Borrowing from Norse (sun) and Celt (moon) for inspiration, the fey elves of the setting are mainly mythical creatures, which I agree, is an aspect of humanity.

Ultimately, the elves are strictly nonhuman. They are actual features of nature. The Norse elves are conscious sunlight, the normal auras and beams of sunlight. It is an animistic worldview. Most sunlight likes being sunlight and doing what sunlight likes to do, such as shining and reflecting. Likewise the Celt elves are actual fertile soil. Wherever one sees an unusually lush patch of trees or plants, one can be sure the soil is both conscious and powerful − elven.

Despite Norse and Celt having skyey and earthy elves respectively, both elves share much in common. Both are fates, associating birth, love, business success, luck, and relating to love, sexuality, and beauty. Likewise, as manifestations of fate, fateful words and magical spells, both are embodiments of magic itself.

As mages, the Norse sunlight can manifest their consciousness in the form of a human. When sunlight does this, they are virtually human, mentally and emotionally, as well as bodily.

It resembles the "werewolf syndrome". There are stories about a mage who takes on the form of a wolf, and loses ones own identity within the identity of the wolf. It takes much skill to "return to ones senses", especially if choosing to remain a wolf form. In deed, when a human mage maintains their human mentality, the eyes of the animal form tend to remain human looking, and intelligent in a human way.

So, when the sunlight takes on a human form, it can lose itself in its human mentality.

Note, the sunlight can manifest in many forms, humans yes, but also swan, horse, wolf, serpent, or whatever. (There is debate whether a reference to "slither" means taking a snake form or skiing on snowshoes, as both meanings seem possible.)

The sunlight tends to take on human forms, especially because their nornir shape the successful fates of each human. They generally like being humans (humanesque).

In the Norse stories, when the sunlight materializes into a human body, the body is human enough to reproduce children with other humans. These children tend to preserve magical beauty and power, but are otherwise normal humans.



Judging by the anthropology of the Sámi shaman (noaidi) and the historical records of Scottish witches, the sexual nature of elves appears to be part of reallife shamanic trances. Often in the visions, an elf or analogous nature being visits as a teacher to help the shaman learn how to do magic. In Norway, it is typically the jǫtnar "troll" who teach human shamans magic, but likely in Alfheimr on the coastal border between Norway and Sweden, it was probably usually elves who taught shamanic magic. These visionary encounters often include a romantic and sexual relationship with the nature being, that some describe via Jungian psychology. Note, every human is a magical being, but it requires skill to learn how to wield this magic, similar to athletic skill, and some individuals seem especially talented.

Generally, the Norse elf associates the fate of a human individual, including being born, falling in love, sexuality, and raising kids. Likewise, the elves tend to fall in love in human ways.



For the D&D setting, the fey elves borrow from all of these mythic concepts.



Because the human-appearing sunlight and soil actually are so human, these elves likewise have genderqueer and intersex individuals, just like humans do.

Some scholars (such as Alaric Hall) argue the elves have more permission to be nonbinary, because the elf men include powerful shamans (feminine), and the elf women include powerful warriors (masculine). But perhaps normal Norse human cultures are like this too. Norse celebrate both muscular masculine beauty as well as graceful feminine beauty. Individuals enjoy personal freedom to explore the institutions of either gender-division.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

I was going by your suggestion that because darkvision is only shades of gray, the color would be less relevant. The dwarves are gemologists and the stones are probably of beautiful color, whether vivid or subtle. But perhaps, the color itself wouldnt be part of the symbolism for romance.

I wasn’t saying color is less relevant, rather, that it would be less apparent. That’s why I brought up invisible ink. Messages in invisible ink can only be read in certain lighting conditions.

Likewise, many stone colors wouldn’t be noticed by anyone until it was illuminated- until that point, a message conveyed by stone code might be ambiguous. You’d be able to distinguish between regular quartz and amethyst with dark vision, but amethyst and smoky quartz would probably be indistinguishable, as might regular quartz and citrine.

 

[Cap'n Kobold]

Given my most recent post and Faolin’s insight, I could see dwarves coding- if needed- involving opals. Maybe fire agate. (Among the most colorful stones out there.)

Or perhaps- like in a short story I read- they have an intricate code of glass beads woven into their hair.

OTOH, Dwarven coding might not involve color at all…. Maybe it’s all about mineral types.

Maybe due to darkvision, dwarves don't really pay much attention to colour. What they're really interested in is texture. Anyone can mix up some paint and slap it around, but it takes dedication and patience to use just the right weave, or file at just the right angle to make a garment or stone surface look beautiful under darkvision.

This could also be why dwarves have a reputation for being covetous: you can't appreciate something until you can held it in your hands and run your fingers over it. Precious metals are soft, and can take more textures than other materials.

I would think that magical beings that live as long as elves, are wise enough to not really care very much about gender. They have hundreds of years to figure out how they identify, and I would imagine elven society just wouldn't make a big deal out of it. So the concept of a pride flag, especially a rainbow one that is so close to our own, just doesn't fit.

If elves actually have the blessing of corellon/are actually incarnated nature spirits, it is possible that they actually put more stock in someone's physical gender than other races do, because to them it is a matter of choice. If an elf has a feminine body, then you know that a feminine body is what they wanted to have today, along with all that would imply in elven culture.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

Maybe due to darkvision, dwarves don't really pay much attention to colour. What they're really interested in is texture. Anyone can mix up some paint and slap it around, but it takes dedication and patience to use just the right weave, or file at just the right angle to make a garment or stone surface look beautiful under darkvision.

I think Dwarven aesthetics as the de facto gemologists in fantasy settings where they exist would still emphasize color. Several gemstones are basically defined by their color (opals, rubies Vs sapphires) or how they interact with light (moonstones, star/cat’s eye stones, color-change stones, etc.). And the function of faceting is both reflection and refraction of light.

Any Dwarven lapidary who ignored light or color would thus be poorly regarded as a craftsman.

 

[Yaarel]

I think Dwarven aesthetics as the de facto gemologists in fantasy settings where they exist would still emphasize color. Several gemstones are basically defined by their color (opals, rubies Vs sapphires) or how they interact with light (moonstones, star/cat’s eye stones, color-change stones, etc.). And the function of faceting is both reflection and refraction of light.

Any Dwarven lapidary who ignored light or color would thus be poorly regarded as a craftsman.

Maybe the dwarves use quartz color to signify who one is interested in? In this case, the gem color might adopt the elven colors. The jewelry often includes three stones for three colors.

Where the gem color is usually shades of grey in darkvision, the romantic interest is symbolically reserved. So the dwarves are more polite and formal about their romantic interests.

Perhaps they typically arrange a meeting with a prospective mate, family to family, to set up a date between them.

 

[Yaarel]

If elves actually have the blessing of corellon/are actually incarnated nature spirits, it is possible that they actually put more stock in someone's physical gender than other races do, because to them it is a matter of choice. If an elf has a feminine body, then you know that a feminine body is what they wanted to have today, along with all that would imply in elven culture.

Yeah, that makes sense to me. The body that an elf chooses is an intentional statement − a self-expression.