D&D haters???

[Midknightsun]

Yeah, there's definitely still a stigma attached to D&D, though not nearly as bad as what I endured in the 80s. People will still think of me differently when I bring up my hobby (which is kinda funny, since I have several, but whatever), so I don't generally mention it to people I don't know very well or just met. Once they get to know me and realize that I'm (relatively) normal, then I might make mention of it. Goes over much better that way IME. Its unfotunate, but its pretty much a reflex at this point to feel slightly uncomfortable discussing D&D around some strangers.

And besides, some of the stereotyping is there for a reason. I've played with enough of them myself to know the weirdos are out there. So it makes it easier for some to believe the negative things they hear, or at least lump it in with a list of things reclusive shut in geeks do instead of date, lol!

 

[Clavis]

Finally, IMO D&D has never done itself the best of service by borrowing so much material from occult sources. Greek myths are fairly safe material because only a small small group of people take them seriously. The number of people who think occult material is morally offensive and/or something to be taken seriously is not small.

In my opinion, the "evil' reputation of D&D in the 80s was only good for the game in the long term. Not only did it keep the name D&D in the popular imagination, but it made the game attractive to a rebellious segment of the population. Whenever prominent members of society condemn something, the part of society that feels disempowered will be drawn to that very thing, as an act of rebellion. For example, the drug problem in America is now many times worse than it was before drugs were made illegal. Doing drugs is "cool", not just because of the fun of the experience itself, but also because doing them also confers the thrill of defying authority.

Of course, the irony of the "D&D is evil and anti-Christian" situation is that Gary Gygax himself is a professed Christian! If anything, old D&D and AD&D subtly argued against taking a non-Christian, polytheistic world view seriously, by reducing the gods to glorified monsters (complete with stats so you can kill them).

 

[YourSwordIsMine]

In my opinion, the "evil' reputation of D&D in the 80s was only good for the game in the long term. Not only did it keep the name D&D in the popular imagination, but it made the game attractive to a rebellious segment of the population. Whenever prominent members of society condemn something, the part of society that feels disempowered will be drawn to that very thing, as an act of rebellion. For example, the drug problem in America is now many times worse than it was before drugs were made illegal. Doing drugs is "cool", not just because of the fun of the experience itself, but also because doing them also confers the thrill of defying authority.

Of course, the irony of the "D&D is evil and anti-Christian" situation is that Gary Gygax himself is a professed Christian! If anything, old D&D and AD&D subtly argued against taking a non-Christian, polytheistic world view seriously, by reducing the gods to glorified monsters (complete with stats so you can kill them).

I grew up in a very religious family. I was looked on as a pariah by not only my own parents but many of my other relatives; and those few cousins that started playing Champions about the same time as I was getting into the hobby, I could no longer associate with them. I lost friends when their parents found out I played "role-playing games". I wasnt even playing D&D at the time but Marvel Super-Heroes (and Champions to a lesser extent). All this did was drive me further into my own little world and has unfortunately left its scars. All I heard was how evil D&D was and I was going to hell because played it. I didnt even buy my first AD&D books until I was 14 and then the lengths I had to go into to buy them and sneak them into the house and having to hide them between the walls of my closet... Why did I buy them? I was curious. I wanted to know why I was going to hell. I didnt even really play all that much until I was older and 2e came out. Did I run out and join a Satanic Cult like my mom thought I would? No I didnt. Does the lies and deceit I perpetrated to hide my interest in the RPG hobby still bother me? More than you can imagine. Has this affected my life adversly? Yes it did, and has taken me many years to repair a lot of the damage it caused and it is an ongoing process. So do I think the "evil reputation of D&D" was a good thing for the hobby? Hell no... It has only made things worse.

 

[Kesh]

Run something besides D&D first.

The idea is like this: Star Wars campaign or a Shadowrun campaign, or something else that the parents don't find objectionable. Let that one run 6 months or so. When it's done, plan a D&D game. If the parents object, point out that it's no different than the game she had previously been involved in. If they object about the magic, point out the Force in SW or that SR has dragons/orcs/magic etc. and their daughter is still just fine.

If it comes right down to "D&D is evil," then whip out the rebuttals. Ask them to read that, to read some books on the "Satanic panic" of the 80's, and to see that it's all a bunch of bunk. Be sure all along to emphasize that their daughter knows reality from fiction (and the rest of the group does too), and you have no intention of actually "messing around" with "real" magic.

If they still object at this point, drop it. In fact, if they get angry about it at any point, drop it. It's not worth losing a friend, or making her parents clamp down on her, over a game.

 

[Avatar_V]

There's been a lot of good responses here, but since I've also faced this situation, I'll toss in my own story.

Executive summary for those who don't want to read a long post: Appeal to her parents to trust in you to not run some sort of whacked out game)

My girlfriend (now wife) is, like me, from a conservative family. When her parents found out that I played D&D and that their daughter might play with me, there was some concern. The concerns were based on (1) misinformed belief that D&D somehow involves actually beliving in/practicing magic (2) that somehow in-game actions spilled over into real life - for example, DMs bribing players for real money or, in extreme examples, people committing suicide out of grief/anger over character death.

Though they're still a bit weary, we were able to assuage those concerns by explaining that D&D is a game of make believe and nothing more. Of course, because it relies so much on imagination, the game can vary wildly from one table to another. Perhaps the stories they've heard (D&D leading to actual cultish worship) come from some gaming group with a particularly occult-minded DM/players. But, in my group, I'm the DM and we appealed to their respect for me (I teach a Sunday school class at church, got good grades in school, have a good job, etc.). We explained that a game run by me would be cops and robbers with dice (as someone else has said on this thread already - and let me add that they liked that description) without any glorification of things evil/occult/etc.

In the end, her parents seemed ok with that because they trusted that I would run an interesting game of 'make believe' without requiring/encouraging anything cultish from my players. I'll also say that I think having her parents sit in on a game may have helped, so I'll second that advice, though, in my case, it wasn't necessary.

Anyhow, I hope this helps and I hope they understand that the content of a game that is 98% imagination depends 98% on the people playing!

 

[werk]

Run something besides D&D first.

Heh, I tried that when my mom burned all my D&D books in high school.

I bought a suppliment of palladium with all the rites and rituals in there and gave that to her. How to make a zombie, how to kill or curse people, summoning demons, stuff like that. Then I said, that is not D&D, if I wanted to do that, I would, but even THAT is make-believe! That didn't work at all and she got a little more upset. Her point was that it wasn't make believe and the insidiousness was in telling us it was harmless so we'd consume the evil unknowingly!

Impossible to reason against blind faith and misdirection.


Eventually she grew out of it.

 

[Jeysie]

Meh. Reading this stuff always reminds me of having to deal with the parents of friends who tried to butt into their kid's lives when they had absolutely no idea what they were talking about. It also reminds me why I moved out as soon as possible - because I got tired of arguing with my mom over her trying to do the same to me.

But, I also echo the idea of running something else besides D&D. In fact, I'd probably just run something else other than D&D until everyone's old enough to make their own decisions... plenty of non D&D RP goodness out there, after all.

I'd also agree with emphasizing the fact that roleplaying promotes creativity, social interaction, and problem-solving. I know that I love my own roleplaying sessions each week because it gets my creative juices flowing with character ideas and joining with everyone to write our own stories and overcome problems together. It's a most welcome departure from the somewhat mindless drudgery of my day job.

If you're insistent on playing D&D, I'd add also noting that the so-called "Satanic" aspects of D&D are *optional*. My group, in the past three years, has not used anything demonic, monstrous, or even angelic (outside of Cure Light Wounds cleric stuff) in our campaigns; we just use the "regular" orcs, kobolds, vermin, etc. And we have two devout Christians in our group, to boot... one of whom loves playing Clerics.

Of course, as far as I'm concerned, whenever I hear about this sort of thing, it just proves to me that it's not the *children* we need to worry about being unable to tell the difference between reality and fantasy. ;P

Peace & Luv, Liz

 

[Harmon]

Personally I like people telling me that D&D and gaming is evil, it shows me that I am smarter then someone, somewhere.

Invite the slow learner to the table, let them watch, and while they do, hand them the PHB and let them leaf through it looking for the Sacrificer Class and the must be Evil alignment to play class. Then ask them to find the place where it says "Players must make animal sacrifices," or anything like that. "Now about worshiping a make believe god...."

 

[Doug Sundseth]

my hat of d02 knows no limits.

I wish I had a hat of d02. It would go so perfectly with my penny loafers. I'd probably want one with limits though; my ego is large, but not unbounded.

 

[GreatLemur]

Is it just me, or is this thread a magnet for all the bad spelling on the forum?