Just noting I think you misread this part - they are saying EOne covered a good chunk of the production budget, not that the opening weekend sales covered a good chunk.
D&D Movie/TV D&D Movie Hit or Flop?
- Thread starter Zardnaar
- Start date
bedir than
Hero
The individual claimed that there are industry insiders saying that the movie failed/flopped.
There's no evidence that this is true.
Jaeger
That someone better
Re-reads slowly... You are right.
I stand corrected.
But the point I was making is still sound:
They did say: "That’s a solid figure for “Honor Among Thieves,”
So "good chunk" or "solid figure", whatever descriptor you use; it doesn't change the fact that D&D's opening weekend haul of about 24% of its production budget was still the same percentage that Shazam 2 pulled.
No I didn't.
The quote function does not work in your favor here.
You asked this:
I responded with this:
I clearly made no such claim that "industry insiders" have claimed it flopped. My reply post is unedited.
My point in saying that: "Industry pundits cite the exact same data and sources that are being used on this thread."
Is that the 'industry' media outlets have no special knowledge. They are using the same data, sources, and metrics that everyone else does.
Which is demonstrably true.
Trying to play the "But did an industry article say it" card, is a textbook example of the 'appeal to authority' logical fallacy.
Also this:
bedir than
Hero
You still haven't linked one.
You have made an unsupported claim, while asserting that I declared ScreenRant reputable.
Overall thoughts on this, yes the OP is quite clear how measuring this, so I can see why the focus is on the numbers by Zardnaar, it is the whole premise of the thread, though perhaps the title could have said something like 'D&D Move - Hit or Flop at Box Office?' or something similarly a bit more narrower in focus to go along with the opening post, otherwise it lends itself to a bit more general interpretations and is possibly more emotive / getting stronger reactions as it stands than if it was otherwise (and not helped with other posts around the likes of 'could D&D die again?' which look to be interesting thought experiments, but all added together can be taking as doom saying for D&D as a whole).
For me I guess I disagree with the premise of measuring it solely on box office results, as aren't necessarily only measures of success, given other sources of revenue that others mention, plus what might be the overall goals.
Shazam and Black Adam have both had a lot of media attention on poor showings at the box office, but if they were just standalone independent films there may have not been such attention or such a view of being failures, but it is more them being part of the wider DC / superhero franchises that people look at them as being poor. Similar Doctor Strange and MoM has had a lot of mixed views on it's success, despite nearly reaching 1 billion at the box office on a budget upwards of 200 million - not a financial issue by any means, but people expected / hoped for more. The attention on Antman and the Wasp 3 is even worse, though again more than doubled it's budget, but people expected a lot better, and already doomsaying about the MCU as a whole despite what seems to still be a profitable business, just not as profitable as it used to be.
Thus when it comes to D&D, people have different expectations, and may consider that while at box office it may not recoup costs, that doesn't mean it wasn't successful for what they were going for, whether something else in Paramount + stable, more awareness / sales for D&D brand, merchandising etc.
I admit I hoped for better myself in terms of Box Office results, as would like a sequel and obviously the better it goes, the more likely this will occur, but I don't think that it's performance to date necessarily means it won't get a sequel - Paramount and Hasbro could be pretty happy with where things stand now.
For me I guess I disagree with the premise of measuring it solely on box office results, as aren't necessarily only measures of success, given other sources of revenue that others mention, plus what might be the overall goals.
Shazam and Black Adam have both had a lot of media attention on poor showings at the box office, but if they were just standalone independent films there may have not been such attention or such a view of being failures, but it is more them being part of the wider DC / superhero franchises that people look at them as being poor. Similar Doctor Strange and MoM has had a lot of mixed views on it's success, despite nearly reaching 1 billion at the box office on a budget upwards of 200 million - not a financial issue by any means, but people expected / hoped for more. The attention on Antman and the Wasp 3 is even worse, though again more than doubled it's budget, but people expected a lot better, and already doomsaying about the MCU as a whole despite what seems to still be a profitable business, just not as profitable as it used to be.
Thus when it comes to D&D, people have different expectations, and may consider that while at box office it may not recoup costs, that doesn't mean it wasn't successful for what they were going for, whether something else in Paramount + stable, more awareness / sales for D&D brand, merchandising etc.
I admit I hoped for better myself in terms of Box Office results, as would like a sequel and obviously the better it goes, the more likely this will occur, but I don't think that it's performance to date necessarily means it won't get a sequel - Paramount and Hasbro could be pretty happy with where things stand now.
Vaalingrade
Legend
This is what I've been saying: It's not economics that makes a flop. It is the gleeful, desperate desire to proclaim it that makes a flop.
Plenty of movies fail to turn a profit, magical accounting or no. And plenty make more than enough money, but have a healthy hatedom anyway. But it is the power and purity of human spite that lets us open the greasy depths of our bile ducts to lift our heads proudly to the heavens and proclaim a movie a flop time and time again until it is indelibly written in the subconsciousness of the people who watched it once and don't remember or new generations who never watched it and will just parrot it back because they herd someone say it.
And that's the real dream.
It doesn't matter how good the movie is today; the real battle is in the hearts and minds of tomorrow. To convince the eyes of history that this thing, no matter how popular, no matter how much money it made, sucked actually.
So go forth my friends, and completely ruin pop culture history!
LuisCarlos17f
Legend
There is a good reason Paramount should be happy with D&D. Not only they are going to recover the investment but they have got in their hands an IP not too linked with a little group of characters. The brand is about the world, not about the same heroes saving the day. There is a rich lore but this is not a straitjacket.
The brand has earned more prestige thanks this movie, and this is very important.
Warner lost a lot of money with the first Tim Burton's Batman movie because they spent too much to promote, but today it is the most valious IP by Warner.
Here the release was in March 31st.
My opinion is the action figures of the characters from the movie were too expensive, to be bought by collectors, but not to be played by children. Hasbro has to sell "cheap" toys to promote the brands.
The brand has earned more prestige thanks this movie, and this is very important.
Warner lost a lot of money with the first Tim Burton's Batman movie because they spent too much to promote, but today it is the most valious IP by Warner.
Here the release was in March 31st.
My opinion is the action figures of the characters from the movie were too expensive, to be bought by collectors, but not to be played by children. Hasbro has to sell "cheap" toys to promote the brands.
M_Natas
Hero
That is true. I read the prequel Novel and was like: will the daughter even be in the movie? Why isn't she mentioned in the trailers at all? Both prequel novels really pull at your heartstrings and Road to Neverwinter is the best D&D Novel I've read so far and that is what you should focus on. The heart of the story. The Advertisement made the Movie to be a Knock Off Guardians of the Galaxy.
I think that's why it is not getting traction with casual movie goers. They have enough of soulless Superhero studio movies.
They have also no emotional investment in D&D in comparison to something like Mario. I think what we see right now are the box office numbers you get, when you only activate the fan base.
It will end up with something like 200 million globally. Which is not a lot. And that is a problem.
If you compare it Star Trek 09 - a very bad Star Trek Movie (but a good SciFi Adventure) - that Movie connected with the casual movie goers. But that was also 2009 - where Brand recognition and having fun Space adventures was enough as a selling point. Today the market is saturated with fun supernatural adventure movies, mostly made by Disney.
And D&D didn't do anything in its marketing to make it stand out of the crowd. Also - while I think HAT is the perfect D&D Movie encapsulating the feel of a small campaign, that is not a selling point for casual viewers.
DD:HaT also has way less heart then the prequel novel. The Fun is romped up to a 100, but the heart of the story of Road to Neverwinter was the found family. Both Holga and Edgin were rock bottom and then found each other to care for Kira. That heartfelt moments were barley scratched in DD:HaT.
So - what are the lessons we could learn for a future D&D Cinematic universe?
First of all:
Don't try to be the Offbrand MCU. Don't do what DC did by trying to Kickstart a Cinematic Universe with 200 million dollar movies.
You need to take a Lesson from John Wick or other franchises that grew without or with low brand recognition.
You start with lower budget Movies that are good.
So in hindsight, what should have been done?
First: They should have made Road to Neverwinter with a 50 Million budget. The story of Edgin as a Widower, a Father out of his element, trying to raise a daughter with the help of this other outcast, Holga the Barbarian, who became Thieves to support themselves. That is a story with heart. That also would make 200 million but it would be a success. Because you get to now the characters and get to love them. In DD:HaT they are just there. They give us just enough backstory to be invested, but they barley make us care.
Second they should have made a Movie or a limited Series about Doric going to Druid School, like in Druid's Call but actually make the Druid School Part good. Its like Harry Potter for Druids!
You can do that on a 50 million Budget, too and it is geared towards a younger audience. That could even surpass 200 Million at the Box Office.
Then you make a movie or Series about a struggeling Simon (or just introduce him in Road to Neverwinter).
And then you do a limited Series on how Forge took controll over Neverwinter. A political thriller Series with Intrigue ... made like Bridgerton but in a Fantasy World.
Now we have 3-4 lower Budget Projects, that have heart. That makes us interested in the Characters, that makes us really care about the characters.
Like John Wick 1 did with a 20 Million Budget, like the MCU did with the early Marvel Movies like Iron Man, Thor and Captain America.
With the Technology of The Mandalarian it is super cheap to make Fantasy Movies today.
So, now that we have our 3 Start Projects:
- Road to Neverwinter to introduce Edgin, Holga and Kira (and a little bit of Simon(
- the Druid's Call to introduce Kira and a magical School
- and Games of Neverwinter to show Forge in his whole glory
- and maybe a Simon Origin Story
We have now three good lower budget projects that work as perfect advertisement for when the whole thing cumulates into the Crossover Blockbuster Honor among Thieves. Now they don't have to shoehorn in the whole backstory in Flashbacks. Now we already care about the Charcters going into the movie and we also had 3 Projects before to iron out all the kinks.
So - that is building a D&D Cinematic universe with hindsight and bynjust taking what is already there.
Last edited:
Zardnaar
Legend
Not a bad idea basically my idea with the video fane. Entire season of Shadow and Bone cost 60 odd million.
Basically they need to make decent lower ambition stuff and build up to the big stuff.
"The brand" isn't really there outside if the ttrpg. In been decades since they've had a hit video game.
Last edited:
M_Natas
Hero
But people don't go to the Cinema to see a world (except maybe Avatar ... but I think James Cameron made a deal with devil - his Box office record os outright scary - with 11 movies he is the highestgrossing director ever and made more money then steven spielberg with his 30 movies ...). In order to be successful you need characters. Pirates of the Caribbean was a succes because of Johnny Depps Jack Sparrow. The MCU was a success because they made us care about Tony Stark, Steve Rogers, Thor and even the freaking Hulk and a Raccoon! But that is also the reason the MCU is struggling right now, because they have problems making us care about the next generation of avengers. I mean, who cares about the eternals or Shang-Chi?
Star Trek works best, when they succeed in making us care about the characters. That's why it's usually needs like three seasons of a new Trek show to become good.
They need to build up the Characters and need to make us a care about them.
Ironically they actually did that with the prequel novels. That should have been the first movies/series in the D&D cinematic universe. To make us getting to know the characters and make us care about them. That's why John Wick is working. The first movie made us care. That's why we watch part 2, 3 and 4, because of the emotional connection forged in the first movie.
We have to see about that. My guess is, outside the D&D bubble not a lot of people took an interest in the movie. That's why it's bombing.
Last edited:
Similar Threads
