d20 Super Heroes --- coming in July '06 from WOTC

[King of Old School]

Looked boastful to me.
And the janitor analogy was not disingenuous in the least. If I were in that position, I likely WOULD use it to my advantage. Perhaps you're using an obscure meaning for disingenuous, rather than "insincere". I was being completely sincere.

The idea that a janitor could legitimately claim the same access to information as a member of the design staff is ridiculous. I think my assumption that you were only using it rhetorically was giving you more credit than the alternative...

And stating that any game is among the industry best-sellers during a low point in the industry isn't exactly a grandiose boast. Pointing out that a supplement is unlikely to outsell a successful game isn't a boast either.

Heh! If availability is any indication then at least in my area, D20 Super Heroes will way outsell M&M, unless the bookstores around here suddenly quit carrying D20 Modern product. I have yet to see M&M on the shelves of any store other than the little hole in the wall gaming shop... (snip)

Sure. There are all kinds of anecdotal reports regarding local variations of interest. Of course, I wasn't referring to a local anything but rather, a national book chain and one with an unhealthy dominance of the book trade in this country. There's some apples and oranges for you.

KoOS

 

[buzz]

I'm curious to see how the D20 Superheroes will handle rules for "powers of the cuff."

I wouldn't be surprised if WotC took a nod from M&M and used Action Points to facilitate this. Or, took a nod from HERO and used the super-equivalent of the Spellcraft skill.

Either way, I look forward to what they come up with.

 

[C. Baize]

God, Baise, I thought Vigilance was smug (on the first page of the thread). Way to totally beat him.

It's Baize.
And smug doesn't even begin to cover it.

 

[Henry]

God, Baise, I thought Vigilance was smug (on the first page of the thread). Way to totally beat him.

Chuck's got his perspective over the prospects for d20Supers, you have yours, and I have mine. How the product does perform in the long run will be told in time, and he does have a point not to write it off before looking at the finished good.

I don't think anyone was "beaten", and IMO crowing over a discussion is poor form anyway. Let's try to be polite one to another, please?

 

[Vigilance]

I'm curious to see how the D20 Superheroes will handle rules for "powers of the cuff." Comic books frequently have a hero use his powers in a new and interesting way for a one-shot need. Basically, can d20 Modern be flexible enough to handle the "free-flow" action and adventure of the comic books?

WoTC has some talented folks, so I look forward to seeing what they come up with.

I did this through action points in Blood and Vigilance- so that's one way to handle it.

As you say though, the Wiz has designers with way more experience than me (they dont call him Mike "One Million Words" Mearls for nothing) so I plan on getting d20 Supers and seeing their take.

As mentioned earlier, I collect supers games, and the only thing that I dont like is a bad one.

Chuck

 

[HeapThaumaturgist]

I've got M&M1st and B&V and I'll probably pick up the d20 Supers supp as well.

Not sure WHY, mind you. I only got to play one game with B&V and a handful of short run comics-length episodes with M&M ... but they were loads of fun, and I just like supers games, I guess.

Which is odd, considering I don't actually read superhero comic books. Ever.

--fje

 

[Vigilance]

Which is odd, considering I don't actually read superhero comic books. Ever.
--fje

Not really, I think there's a reason why supers games, post apoc games and fantasy games are everywhere.

They are the three most popular gaming genre.

Chuck

 

[buzz]

Not really, I think there's a reason why supers games, post apoc games and fantasy games are everywhere.

They are the three most popular gaming genre.

Are they? I had thought they were:

1. Fantasy
2. Horror
3. Everything else

I'd wager post-apoc is towards the mid-to-bottom rung of category 3. Supers is probably near the top.

But I'm no industry pro.

 

[Vigilance]

Are they? I had thought they were:

1. Fantasy
2. Horror
3. Everything else

I'd wager post-apoc is towards the mid-to-bottom rung of category 3. Supers is probably near the top.

But I'm no industry pro.

Well- I havent done a systematic study or anything

However, the reason I named those three as the top gaming genre are that I can never remember a time when there was not *multiple* games of each genre in print.

Post Apoc has had: Gamma World (70's-current), Rifts (80's-current), Shadowrun (90's-current) (both Rifts and Shadowrun are examples of "magical apocalypse" which works great because PA is basically a different take on the fantasy genre anyway), Darwin's World (90's-current).

To name just a few. Now notice something else about that list. All of them are still in print. Every single one.

For horror gaming you have um... Call of Cthulhu. Probably another one that Im forgetting. But still nothing like Post Apoc.

For Supers you have: Villains and Vigilantes (70's), Hero (80's-current), Marvel FASERIP (80's), GURPs (80's-current), Marvel (the new one with the stone allocation thingie) (Current), DC Heroes (80's), M&M, Deeds not Words, 4CTF, Blood and Vigilance (all current).

Most of these games are still in print, and even the defunct ones are still widely played.

Again only Call of Cthulhu has anything like the following among ANY ONE of those supers games among the gaming public (to my knowledge, in my opinion and all those other disclaimers).

And of course Fantasy has that D&D game

Anyway- that's what I was going on was the fact that the nature of gaming seems to NEED those three genre.

Sure we had Top Secret and we have Spycraft for spy games, but I remember plenty of times when there wasn't a spy game on the market. I can't say that about Post Apoc or Supers or Fantasy.

Chuck

 

[EditorBFG]

Call of Cthulhu was the only big Horror game for a while, but that has changed. I think Horror has been in the top three since the early 90's, when Vampire and the other World of Darkness games came out. White Wolf isn't nearly as big as WotC, but it is the only other really big kid on the block.