arscott said:
* It'll suck, or otherwise be of limited use. Class and level based systems don't work that well with superheroes. I can't see them making anything particularly good without introducing incompatibility with the rest of d20 Modern.
Nothing about supers inherently requires you to need points and classfree design in order to 'freely build concepts' anymore so than fantasy, modern, science fiction, and other genres.
Gamers are used to being templated in by fantasy, but it has just as many if not more problems as supers does with the archetypal structure of classes. There is nothing about fantasy that says characters come as warriors, rogues, wizards, and priests. That assumption has only been nailed in by gaming. For supers We could just as easily say supers are all blasters, bricks, telepaths, speedsters, martial artists, and gadgeteers.
Sure, we've just cut a wide swath of concepts out. But we do that everytime we sit down to a game like DnD as well - with a lot less player revolt than there should be if this 'freedom to design the actual concepts present in the genre' was important to anyone but a few freaks like myself (
). Sure, there are people like me who jusr cannot stand to sit down to a class based fantasy game because we need that freedom to design, but I know I'm in the minority on that, and I would say that if Champions and Villains and Vigilantes had not been the premiere super RPGs, if Heroes Limited had come out first, then in supers I'd be in a minority as well.
And, frankly, Champions used classes. Not in force, but most Champions people refer to character as brick, energy projector, mentalist, martial artist, speedster, etc. Not only do they just use these terms, but they have solid ideas of what stats and powers and types of combat / non combats actions each should be good or bad in. Champions players in fact, stick to 'character class' quite strongly considering how they really don't need to.
So, character classes might very well not be a detraction for a supers game - despite how disgusting of a concept it seems to be.
arscott said:
* Mutants and Masterminds: This is essentially the first time Wizards will have any real competition. When they released Future, there was no definative Future d20 product. When they released Past, there was no go-to book for all your PseudoHistorical Gaming needs. The closest thing to Apocalypse is Darwins World, which itself is a d20 Modern addon. And while there are a few cyberpunk products out there, none has even acheived a level of "people have heard of this".
TSR showed it could challenge Champions in the mid 80s with FASERIP Marvel - a significantly inferior product by the standards most supers fans today tout. Random generation, no ability to fully develop, prescripted powers, complete lack of any play balance, etc. And yet from day one of its existance it was a major force simply because of the two brands. Today we know the Marvel brand however, is not strong in RPGs (as seen by the failure of later Marvel RPGs, one of which was TSR but sidetracked by the TSR's collapse), so we can assume it is more a factor of the TSR/WotC brand - which many gamers will follow blindly simply 'because'. For them, that is the 'only RPG company'.
You may be right on Future, although I would say GURPS has the hard science fans wrapped up, and yet not being WotC it is no suprise this forum is less aware of that. GURPS also has Apocalypse to a lesser degree.
For Cyberpunk, the market has Shadowrun, Ex Machina, and Cyberpunk 2020 (which still has a die hard following). These are still -the- Cyber RPGs. However, WotC putting something out here would eclypse them.
Many gamers simply will not look beyond WotC, of those who do many will not look look beyond d20, and of the few who go beyond that few get past OGL.
arscott said:
M&M is an established line with a dozen products, and It's just gone into a second edition.
MnM is 2 and half years old and only has a handfull of products. It hit the market strong, but it is still less played than Champions, and both will face a very tough challenge in anything from WotC, even if it turns out to be objectively 'crap'.
