d20 Super Heroes --- coming in July '06 from WOTC

[Henry]

Ah yes, and so it begins.
...
I cant wait for the endless flame wars that will occur when the product actually appears.

Chuck

I'm not flaming them, I'm stating a fact - this is billed in the Amazon entry as "a d20 modern supplement." If they do go the route of "advanced classes" to base the super-heroic element from, they will have a DARNED hard time making it as flexible and all-encompasing as M&M has proven to be. The other route is to go Ryan's four-color-to-fantasy way, and create a meta-point system to stack onto the existing classes. Either way, unless it's somehow very novelly done, is not going to be in the least as effective as M&M.

That's why I wish the writer(s) good luck, because they have a huge task ahead. Unless it blows my socks off with something out of left field that's sheer genius (like modern's core classes were), M&M will be my vehicle of choice, it will be what I recommend to others for good Superheroic rules, and it will be the standard by which all other similar rulesets are based for me.

And yes, I can't wait till WotC releases it either, so I can make the comparisons.

 

[Henry]

I think anything wotc puts out will compete with any 3rd party pub just fine.

A pity, true - that's why, unless this set is really good, I'll be hawking M&M every chance I get, because it's a darned good game that doesn't deserve to be overshadowed by WotC's buying power alone.

 

[Vigilance]

I'm not flaming them, I'm stating a fact - this is billed in the Amazon entry as "a d20 modern supplement."

Right- stating the fact that you're going to proselytize M&M over this game you haven't seen. I read what you said, and the later poster who said he'd be impressed if it was "half as good".

Those statements based on the page count lol.

Like I said, I can't *wait* to see the threads about this game (pro and con) when it ACTUALLY appears.

This will be the RPG equivalent of the Mike vs. Joel flame wars. I have made my prediction and I stand by it.

Chuck

 

[Henry]

Right- stating the fact that you're going to proselytize M&M over this game you haven't seen.

...unless it's good. This is coming from a man unimpressed with d20 Apocalypse, d20 Past, and - well - everything in the "modern" line done by WotC in the past year. It's all been territory that's been touched before in d20, and what was new did not fire my imagination. That's not a good track record from where I stand, and I'm hoping other products this coming year will change my mind.

 

[Jim Hague]

What worries me regarding this product is the posibility (probability?) that it'll end up being slightly revised rehash material like d20 Future and d20 Apocalypse. Given the patter of the other d20 Modern supplements that've come out, it's very, very likely they'll stick to the tried and true (but too restrictive for supers, IMO) formula of base class + advanced class for the book.

That said, I'm interested in seeing what they come out with, simply because Mutants and Masterminds is such a superlative product already. It set the bar, like it or not, and d20 Supers will need to make a fairly mighty leap to compete in terms of flexibility and rules elegance.

 

[JPL]

Well, when the flaming begins, let's all remember that every other superhero game is crap compared to FASERIP Marvel [Advanced Edition]. Seriously. Let's all stipulate to that. We can argue about the second-best superhero game.

 

[Jim Hague]

Not a chance, JPL. and this from someone who owns the entire line and played for a good 4 years.

 

[Vigilance]

Well, when the flaming begins, let's all remember that every other superhero game is crap compared to FASERIP Marvel [Advanced Edition]. Seriously. Let's all stipulate to that. We can argue about the second-best superhero game.

I agree with this actually.

Of course this is blasphemy to the M&M crowd who keep talking about it "setting the bar".

The bar was already set by Hero and MSH guys, sorry.

Dont get me wrong, I own M&M (1st edition) and think its brilliant, and this is from a guy who WROTE one of those "quaint" little base class-advanced class supers adaptations for d20M.

 

[Jim Hague]

I agree with this actually.

Of course this is blasphemy to the M&M crowd who keep talking about it "setting the bar".

The bar was already set by Hero and MSH guys, sorry.

Dont get me wrong, I own M&M (1st edition) and think its brilliant, and this is from a guy who WROTE one of those "quaint" little base class-advanced class supers adaptations for d20M.

Y'know, it almost sounds like you're spoiling for a flamewar. And please, when you semi-quote me, keep things in context - when I speak of 'setting the bar', I'm talking for d20 supers games. HERO and MSH are great games, but they're obviously not d20. Each system has its own strengths and weaknesses.

Nobody's come in and started bagging on your favorite system...so why not do everyone else a favor and not start bashing MnM?

 

[JPL]

Well, let's not have a flamewar about whether we're going to have a flamewar. That is not the super hero way.

Y'know what was an awesome book? That MSH Ultimate Powers Book. Funny, well-written, extremely useful. I lost mine in 1990 when we moved, and I still mourn its loss.

Hey, Vig --- I'll send you the draft of [Secret Project] this weekend. I believe I have set the bar for [Secret Project's genre] d20 games.