d20 Super Heroes --- coming in July '06 from WOTC

[Jim Hague]

Sure - and the UPB allowed me to make a character with Color Manipulation and defeat the Living Laser by reminding the GM that color's a function of wavelength. Like I said, it's a fine game, but it's not d20 supers, so it's apples and oranges for the sake of speculating on WotC's offering.

 

[Vigilance]

Y'know, it almost sounds like you're spoiling for a flamewar. And please, when you semi-quote me, keep things in context - when I speak of 'setting the bar', I'm talking for d20 supers games. HERO and MSH are great games, but they're obviously not d20. Each system has its own strengths and weaknesses.

Nobody's come in and started bagging on your favorite system...so why not do everyone else a favor and not start bashing MnM?

Where have I bashed M&M? I said I expect its fans to vociferously over-defend it and you call it bashing- I believe my point is made. Thanks for playing.

Is this the point where I point out that technically no, it's not a d20 game at all?

Of course, I've used both sides of that argument on occasion. But despite the fact that it is indeed heavily built off of a d20 chassis, M&M is technically not a d20 game.

So which is it? If its a d20 game, then it IS my favorite game (so the comment about "bashing my favorite system" would seem not to apply). If it isnt- then I defer to MSH for simplicity and Hero for Complexity.

 

[Jim Hague]

Where have I bashed M&M? I said I expect its fans to vociferously over-defend it and you call it bashing- I believe my point is made. Thanks for playing.

And my point about you seeming to be spoiling for some kind of fight is made as well. Thank you.

 

[Warbringer]

Actually, the most interesting thing is the price: $19.95 for a hardcover rule book..

Seems they are series about a large scale release.

My 2c, 2 years too late. The craze behind HeroClix is dying siganlling the comic hero has had his 15 minutes of fame. MM is also a great game

 

[JPL]

The craze behind HeroClix is dying siganlling the comic hero has had his 15 minutes of fame.

I'll tell Sam Raimi, you tell Bryan Singer.

Maybe it's the collectable mini game craze that's cooling off, and not the superheroes?

I don't know if any d20 Modern supplement is expected to become the Next Big Thing, but there's certainly been steady interest in the super RPGs over the years. I'm glad to see WotC hitting some many appropriate genres [d20 Modern is my GURPS], and I'm equally glad that the OGL gives everyone from Green Ronin down to...well, me...a chance to develop our own attempt at Best [Insert Genre] Game Ever.

I'd still like to see WotC take a crack at d20 Military, d20 Martial Arts, and d20 Espionage...although 3rd party publishers have done a lovely job with all three already.

 

[Jim Hague]

I'll tell Sam Raimi, you tell Bryan Singer.

Maybe it's the collectable mini game craze that's cooling off, and not the superheroes?

I don't know if any d20 Modern supplement is expected to become the Next Big Thing, but there's certainly been steady interest in the super RPGs over the years. I'm glad to see WotC hitting some many appropriate genres [d20 Modern is my GURPS], and I'm equally glad that the OGL gives everyone from Green Ronin down to...well, me...a chance to develop our own attempt at Best [Insert Genre] Game Ever.

I'd still like to see WotC take a crack at d20 Military, d20 Martial Arts, and d20 Espionage...although 3rd party publishers have done a lovely job with all three already.

I agree with this 100%. Given the rather sad state of the world these days, I'll paraphrase Samuel Jackon from Unbreakable, with some Joseph Campell thrown in:

People need their heroes, they need something, someone to look up to, something greater than themselves. Superheroes fill that niche - the powers of gods crammed into the all too mortal shells of men.

So no, I don't think you'll see the super genre losing steam any time soon.

 

[Ranger REG]

Interesting... but I don't see it competing seriously with mutants and masterminds.

I don't think they're looking to compete with Green Ronin's MnM, but rather RPG Object's Blood and Vigilance (or is it just Vigilance?) as a truly d20 Modern superhero rules.

Other d20 Modern supers rules include the free downloadable Powers Overwhelming.

 

[arscott]

Actually, the most interesting thing is the price: $19.95 for a hardcover rule book..

Seems they are series about a large scale release.

My 2c, 2 years too late. The craze behind HeroClix is dying siganlling the comic hero has had his 15 minutes of fame. MM is also a great game

The Amazon page is most likely in error. The book will most certainly be softcover.

Ultimately, I suspect that the usefulness of this book will be in it's modularity. If you want to run d20 supers, get M&M. If you want to run d20 Modern Supers, get B&V. But if you want to run a game where the PCs don't have superpowers, this will be the go-to game.

 

[Byrons_Ghost]

Yeah- seems to me like Amazon almost always gets it's early facts wrong. I'm guessing this will be another softcover D20 Modern supplement, probably with the usual advanced classes and supplemental feat/point systems. IOW, pretty much the same as Apocalypse and Cyberscape.

 

[buzz]

Actually, the most interesting thing is the price: $19.95 for a hardcover rule book...

My suspicion is that Amazon has listed either the wrong price or the wrong page-count/physical details. It's going to be either US$19.95, 96pp, softcover; or US$34.95, 160pp, and hardcover.

I was surprised at this product initially, but it now seems sort of obvious. WotC has yet to come anywhere near the supers genre in any of their d20 products, and it's an obvious fit in terms of subject matter for the d20M line. It was going to happen sooner or later. The real question is whether this will be a thorough treatment of the genre a la d20F (i.e., the 160pp hardcover) or simply a superpowers system add-on a la d20 Cyberscape (i.e., the 96pp softcover).

As to competition with M&M... sales-wise, it's no contest. WotC slays all other companies in this regard. As for quality, we can't speak to that until we see the finished product. I love M&M, but I also have faith in the WotC designers. I am also happy to see any extensions of the d20M ruleset. If they can find a way to do supers well within the d20M class system, more power to them; I'll buy it. (Yes, I was gonna buy B&V at some point, too.)

And who knows? Maybe it isn't solely a book about supers. Maybe it's along the lines of what Beyond Science was for Alternity, i.e., a system for adding powers beyond those of mortal peeps to your d20M game, regardless of genre. Honestly, I'd freakin' love to see a toolkit approach like that.