d20 Super Heroes --- coming in July '06 from WOTC

[C. Baize]

Well, I certainly can't argue with Chris Pramas.

Do you see this product as competition for M&M? In any sense?

Enh. Grandstanding.

I'd be willing to bet D20 Super Heroes outsells pretty much any 3rd party product. There are just too many people who feel that if it comes from WotC that makes it "Official".
I'm definitely not in that group, as I feel that what fits for your group is what is "Official". And that includes house rules.
I will, however, be purchasing D20 Super Heroes. Not because it's official, but for more source material to mine for my Blood and Vigilance game.

 

[Henry]

My apologies to you Henry. It's not a mistake I intend to repeat.

No problem, Jim - I wasn't upset or anything, I only bolded to make sure everyone caught it. MSH holds some very fond memories for me, too, as my most successful superhero game was run in this system about 15 years ago.

 

[buzz]

I'd be willing to bet D20 Super Heroes outsells pretty much any 3rd party product.

I'm willing to conceed to Mr. Pramas that d20M doesn't generate anywhere near the interest that D&D does. Granted, no RPG on earth does. I have to wonder if the simple ability of WotC to get its product in more stores (I see WotC d20M books in Borders, but I don't always see GR books) still means d20Supes has more sales potential than any M&M product.

Not that I really care. M&M and d20M rawk on toast, IMO. I hope they both do well.

 

[Jim Hague]

No problem, Jim - I wasn't upset or anything, I only bolded to make sure everyone caught it. MSH holds some very fond memories for me, too, as my most successful superhero game was run in this system about 15 years ago.

Oh, same here, same here. Still, I was brought up to think that not apologizing, even when it's a simple mistake, is rude. I don't want to bring any of my experiences at RPG.Net with me here.

That said, on topic - I honestly believe Chris' claims. It's not bragadoccio at all. Chris is good people, as is everyone at GR. They've got no reason to lie or otherwise dissemble, considering that they've got the #1 superhero game out right now. 'Course, I'm interested in seeing what WotC does, even if my distaste for Modern is pretty severe.

 

[Bretbo]

I'd be willing to bet D20 Super Heroes outsells pretty much any 3rd party product.

I've got money for all parties; so I guess my contribution would be a wash.

 

[buzz]

I've got money for all parties; so I guess my contribution would be a wash.

With gamers, a wash is always a welcome thing.

Thanks folks, I'm here all week!

 

[Pramas]

Enh. Grandstanding.

I don't grandstand, sorry. I used to work at WotC and I have a good idea what they are selling of the d20 Modern supplements. I also know what M&M has sold over its print runs and d20 Superheroes would have to be a home run for them to beat it.

As for the other poster who asked if I saw the WotC book as competition, no, not really. M&M is the established market leader and it has a continuing line of support products. d20 Superheroes is another one shot like Apocalypse and Past, so I just don't think it's going to have an enduring appeal. Nor do I think WotC was really trying to challenge M&M. Their goal is support for d20 Modern and in that way I'm sure it'll be a success for them.

 

[takyris]

That makes sense, Pramas. I can actually see getting d20 Supers to add modularly to my d20 Modern game. I'm sure I can use some of what they put in there, even if it's not to make a superhero-themed game -- more powerful magical abilities for a game where I want magic to work differently from d20 Modern, or where I want bad guys to be superpowered due to genetic tampering or something. As a value-add, it works. As a complete game, possibly not so much.

All, of course, depending upon what they actually come out with.

 

[arscott]

Well, I certainly can't argue with Chris Pramas.

Do you see this product as competition for M&M? In any sense?

Oh sure! When I say it, you're all "nitpick, nitpick, nitpick".

But you agree with him just because it's his company and he knows what he's talking about .

 

[C. Baize]

I don't grandstand, sorry. I used to work at WotC and I have a good idea what they are selling of the d20 Modern supplements. I also know what M&M has sold over its print runs and d20 Superheroes would have to be a home run for them to beat it.

As for the other poster who asked if I saw the WotC book as competition, no, not really. M&M is the established market leader and it has a continuing line of support products. d20 Superheroes is another one shot like Apocalypse and Past, so I just don't think it's going to have an enduring appeal. Nor do I think WotC was really trying to challenge M&M. Their goal is support for d20 Modern and in that way I'm sure it'll be a success for them.

*shrug*

We'll see.
I know at least one sale they're getting that M&M didn't.
And I don't know any publishers that don't grandstand to a degree, so I call 'em as I see 'em. And it still looks that way. If for no other reason than those gamers who think that if it comes from WotC it's automatically better/more official/whatever they have in their heads.
Personally, I hope it sparks up some more Supers Genre interest amongst gamers who may not have otherwise tried it, but will ... [sarcasm] because it's from the holy land of gaming [/sarcasm].