D&D 5E (2014) Define "good" damage...

[thethain]

I would categorize the per turn damage categories into a grade of damage per 3 points of damage dealt, per tier of content. The damages listed below are assuming you are doing the damage total for the turn, so fighters or cantrips automatically scale, but other classes might need to use their other bonuses to get up to par.

F - 3(.5) Or less per tier
Acid Splash on 1 target
Attacking with a d6 weapon with no damage bonus.

D - 6(.5) per tier
Poison Spray.
Longsword attack with +2 bonus

C - 9 per tier
Casting eldritch blast on a target with hex
Attacking with a greatsword with a +2 bonus

B - 12 per tier
Eldritch Blast, hex, and Agonizing blast with +3 bonus
Attacking with a +2 greatsword with a +3 Str bonus.
Level 2 Magic Missile

A - 15 per tier
Eldritch blast, hex, agonizing blast with +6 Cha bonus
Attacking with a +3 greatsword with +5 Str Bonus.

S - 18 per tier
Attack with a +2 longbow, hunter's mark +3 Dex bonus, and Sharp Shooter.
Attacking with a +3 Greatsword, +5 Str, and raging for +3 damage.
Sneak attack+2d6 with +3 light crossbow and +5 Dex
Hitting 1 target with fireball - 28 damage.

So that's pretty good idea of how much damage per turn per tier is considered what grade (To me) keep in mind that at lower tiers, you can boost your damage per turn significantly with bonus actions. But they can't pickup as much slack in higher tier play as they don't scale up in damage as much as your standard actions.

For example Variant Human fighter with 16 Str at level 1 could pick Dueling fighting style and polearm master and uses a staff, Doing (d6+3+2)*2=17 damage a turn That is almost S grade damage, while holding a shield no less! But as he levels up, when he gets to tier 2, if he finds a +1 staff and gets 2 more Str he does (d6+4+2+1)*3=31.5 Damage, but thats only 15.75 damage per tier, so hes squarely at A grade damage. As staff fighter levels up, his bonus action attack is going to be a lower percentage of his overall damage per turn potential.

Keep in mind dealing damage is only one aspect of the game. Using vicious mockery is going to do F grade damage. BUT granting disadvantage on the targets next attack could save the day.

 

[Jester David]

Average damage would be 1d8 + average ability score. Likely a 16, so 7. At level 4 this might go up to 8.
So anything 10 or above is "above average".

 

[Warpiglet]

I would categorize the per turn damage categories into a grade of damage per 3 points of damage dealt, per tier of content. The damages listed below are assuming you are doing the damage total for the turn, so fighters or cantrips automatically scale, but other classes might need to use their other bonuses to get up to par.

F - 3(.5) Or less per tier
Acid Splash on 1 target
Attacking with a d6 weapon with no damage bonus.

D - 6(.5) per tier
Poison Spray.
Longsword attack with +2 bonus

C - 9 per tier
Casting eldritch blast on a target with hex
Attacking with a greatsword with a +2 bonus

B - 12 per tier
Eldritch Blast, hex, and Agonizing blast with +3 bonus
Attacking with a +2 greatsword with a +3 Str bonus.
Level 2 Magic Missile

A - 15 per tier
Eldritch blast, hex, agonizing blast with +6 Cha bonus
Attacking with a +3 greatsword with +5 Str Bonus.

S - 18 per tier
Attack with a +2 longbow, hunter's mark +3 Dex bonus, and Sharp Shooter.
Attacking with a +3 Greatsword, +5 Str, and raging for +3 damage.
Sneak attack+2d6 with +3 light crossbow and +5 Dex
Hitting 1 target with fireball - 28 damage.

So that's pretty good idea of how much damage per turn per tier is considered what grade (To me) keep in mind that at lower tiers, you can boost your damage per turn significantly with bonus actions. But they can't pickup as much slack in higher tier play as they don't scale up in damage as much as your standard actions.



Keep in mind dealing damage is only one aspect of the game. Using vicious mockery is going to do F grade damage. BUT granting disadvantage on the targets next attack could save the day.

Your last point is very important to me. I like options, roleplay opportunity and flavor as well. That said, I also like to mix and match and have rough ideas in my head about relative capability or need to add a little punch.

So in truth, I ask this question from the perspective of a frequent cleric/warlock player who likes melee...with little interest in being a pure fighter. So point well taken.

 

[Geeknamese]

Poor at-will damage: Cleric or Druid fighting in melee.

Average at-will damage: Sorcerer and Wizard cantrips, archer warriors with no feats, sword and board warriors without the duelist combat style and no feats, ranged rogues, monks, bladelocks pre UA.

Good at-will damage: Great weapon fighters, barbarians, and paladins without feats. Post UA bladelocks. Rogues with the Scag cantrips, rangers, blast warlocks with Hex.

Exceptional at-will damage: Sorlocks with hex + quickened eldritch blast. Warriors with great weapon master. Warriors with polearm master. Bow archers with sharpshooter.

Way beyond what should be possible at-will damage: Great weapon master warriors in a party that easily has access to advantage (faerie fire, stunned, hold person, etc). Crossbow expert sharpshooter archers. Great weapon master + polearm master warriors. PCs shapeshifter into CR 17 red dragons.

No one has gone the Great Weapon Master plus Polearm Master combo in one of my games before but before it happens, I might adjust the feat to exclude reach weapons to prevent that combo. When I think of Great Weapon Fighting, I think of big heavy weapons like two-handed swords, great axes and mauls. I don't think of polearms and pikes as devastatingly heavy hitting weapons.


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[Yunru]

Firebolt is poor, but not crippled, damage.
Eldritch Blast is good damage.

So as long as you fall into the range of 1d10 - 1d10+5 per tier you're okay.
Below that, you're sub-par (although normally because you're getting secondary effects in place of damage).
Above that, you're doing above-average damage.

 

[Tony Vargas]

Define "good" damage...

1. Damage caused by or ultimately coming from a deity, artifact, or other supernatural source of that moral alignment, that may be particularly harmful to evil, undead, and/or profane creatures and/or not harmful to good-aligned creatures.
2. Damage that's not noticeably a whole lot less than your buddies are dishing out.
3. Damage adequate to wipe out a level-appropriate encounter in few enough rounds for the combat to be deemed 'fast.'
4. Any damage you can walk away from.
5. Damage that carries an ancillary benefit that makes the circumstances resulting in it a net benefit. ex, the damage you take on a successful save vs that fireball that just killed all the enemies surrounding you.
6. Damage you inflict (as opposed to damage you take, which is 'bad damage').
8. A rolled damage result that is above the average expected result, but still meaningfully below the maximum possible result ("36 on an 8d fireball is good damage.")
9. Certified Organic, locally sourced, cruelty free, fair trade, dolphin safe, non-GMO, low carb, reduced fat, high-fiber, omega-3, vegan Damage.

 

[Shiroiken]

Generally speaking, 1d8+3 is probably the base line for levels 1-4. It's a one handed weapon attack with a 16 ability modifier, so anything above that is going to be "good" while anything less than that is going to be below average. At level 5, this will increase to 2d8+4 (assuming +1 to ability modifier or +1 weapon), and by level 12 it should be no less than 2d8+5. Of course, at will damage varies greatly, since many classes rely on limited benefit damage (rage, smite, ki, spells, etc.), while some (fighter and rogue) have no limitations on at will damage.

If you just want to look at cantrips, my group agrees that xd10 is the baseline. While most cantrips are 1d8, they come with a minor benefit (Chill Touch, Ray of Frost, etc.). Cantrips that deal less than that usually have a good bonus effect (i.e. vicious mockery) or hit multiple targets (i.e. Thunderclap and Sword Burst). Poison Spray, which deals xd12, has a VERY short range, making it less useful.

I think the big question is why is this useful? Damage isn't the end all and be all of combat, since removal, debuffs, and control can do far more to win a combat than simple damage can. Of course, those things generally can't win the fight unless there is damage to back them up. I think you should consider the purpose of your character before you worry about how much damage you are doing.

For example, my Plains Land Druid is by far the lowest damage dealer in the party. I use shillelagh mostly, with Thorn Whip on occasion for control (mostly to pull enemies away from the wizard and onto the barbarian). I'm not worried about pulling my weight, because I perform other tasks. Other than the barbarian, we have no other melee tanks in a party of 6, so I've stepped up to fill that role. I'm also the party's primary healer, because our Light Cleric normally uses his spells for offense, and because I took the Healer Feat. I've also used Shapeshifting to help our Rogue scout, since as an animal, I can often go places she can't.

 

[Shiroiken]

No one has gone the Great Weapon Master plus Polearm Master combo in one of my games before but before it happens, I might adjust the feat to exclude reach weapons to prevent that combo. When I think of Great Weapon Fighting, I think of big heavy weapons like two-handed swords, great axes and mauls. I don't think of polearms and pikes as devastatingly heavy hitting weapons.


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I have a Polearm/Great Weapon Paladin in my game; it's not as bad as you'd think. He primarily only uses the -5/+10 when fighting alongside the Wolf Totem Barbarian or when he uses his Channel Divinity, since missing even a single time due to the -5 makes the +10 not worth it, as he deals 1d10+1d8+4 per hit, for an average of 14 (not counting the fighting style, because I don't know how to calculate the benefit).

I actually have more issues with my Sharpshooting Fighter, but that's mostly because he got a +2 bow that deals 2d6+Dex radiant damage. His attack modifier is such that he can take the -5/+10 regularly, and with 3 attacks, he mows things down like Chewbacca in Episode 7. Can't blame anyone but myself for that...

 

[Oofta]

In addition to the others, I'd throw in rogue with sharpshooter. Attack from hidden to get advantage, add 10 points of damage (ignoring the cover you're hiding behind) and sneak attack.

Have to be human to get it at first level of course, but if you're patient enough to wait for level 4, a sharpshooting lightfoot halfling that always hides behind the barbarian can be devastating if a bit silly.

 

[Warpiglet]

Generally speaking, 1d8+3 is probably the base line for levels 1-4. It's a one handed weapon attack with a 16 ability modifier, so anything above that is going to be "good" while anything less than that is going to be below average. At level 5, this will increase to 2d8+4 (assuming +1 to ability modifier or +1 weapon), and by level 12 it should be no less than 2d8+5. Of course, at will damage varies greatly, since many classes rely on limited benefit damage (rage, smite, ki, spells, etc.), while some (fighter and rogue) have no limitations on at will damage.

If you just want to look at cantrips, my group agrees that xd10 is the baseline. While most cantrips are 1d8, they come with a minor benefit (Chill Touch, Ray of Frost, etc.). Cantrips that deal less than that usually have a good bonus effect (i.e. vicious mockery) or hit multiple targets (i.e. Thunderclap and Sword Burst). Poison Spray, which deals xd12, has a VERY short range, making it less useful.

I think the big question is why is this useful? Damage isn't the end all and be all of combat, since removal, debuffs, and control can do far more to win a combat than simple damage can. Of course, those things generally can't win the fight unless there is damage to back them up. I think you should consider the purpose of your character before you worry about how much damage you are doing.

For example, my Plains Land Druid is by far the lowest damage dealer in the party. I use shillelagh mostly, with Thorn Whip on occasion for control (mostly to pull enemies away from the wizard and onto the barbarian). I'm not worried about pulling my weight, because I perform other tasks. Other than the barbarian, we have no other melee tanks in a party of 6, so I've stepped up to fill that role. I'm also the party's primary healer, because our Light Cleric normally uses his spells for offense, and because I took the Healer Feat. I've also used Shapeshifting to help our Rogue scout, since as an animal, I can often go places she can't.

You ask a good question. Why is this useful?

I like to play versatile characters that contribute to damage. Not lead in damage mind you, but make a good impact when called upon to do this. I agree with you wholeheartedly about other ways to win fights or overcome things. In fact, a recent thread I started is really based on this idea (that comparing a versatile character who can fight relatively well is not best measured against say a fighter, for all of the reasons mentioned).