Dire Weapons?

[evilbob]

The Complete Warrior lists a "Dire Pick" as an exotic weapon. This weapon idea uses a similar methodology to the bastard sword: increase the base weapon one die type (for the bastard sword, use the longsword), make it weigh almost twice as much, more than double the price, and require an exotic weapon feat to use it. Both list themselves as available two-handed melee weapons. Note that this template is similar to - but not as powerful as - creating a "large" version of the same weapon.

Has anyone thought to create more weapons based on a "dire" template? Does that seem like a fairly balanced idea - more damage for a feat and change? If so, does it seem balanced to extend the idea to other types of weapons (not just one-handed melee)?

Some examples:
One Handed Melee
All weapon stats not listed stay the same as the non-dire versions. All weapons listed here require an exotic weapon proficiency to use them one handed, but all may be wielded two-handed as melee weapons.
Dire Club -> 1d8, 6lbs, 5gp
Dire Flail -> 1d10, 9lbs, 18gp
Dire Rapier -> 1d8, 3lbs, 50gp
Dire Scimitar -> 1d8, 6lbs, 40gp
Dire Shortspear -> 1d8, 5lbs, 4gp

Possible examples:
Two Handed Melee
All weapon stats not listed stay the same as the non-dire versions. All weapons listed here require an exotic weapon proficiency to use.
Dire Greatsword -> 2d8, 15lbs, 130gp
Dire Halbred -> 1d12, 20lbs, 25gp *note: Reach not affected
Dire Scythe -> 1d12, 18lbs, 45gp (slightly higher to adjust for lower minimum; another option is 1d6+1d4)
Dire Greataxe -> 3d4, 22lbs, 50gp

Some weapons don't lend themselves well to "dire" versions for role-playing reasons - like the rapier - but overall, the mechanic seems sound. Comments?

Edit: This "template" could be further defined as having a dire weapon do +1 average damage (1d6 -> 1d8 = 3.5 -> 4.5), or +1.5 average damage if the minimum is reduced (2d4 -> 1d12 = 5 -> 6.5, reduced min). Even the greataxe works (1d12 -> 3d4 = 6.5 -> 7.5), except that part of the point of the greataxe is that the range of damage is extreme.
Further definitions: Weight is between 1.6 and 2 x original; Price is between 2.1 and 2.5 times original.

 

[Tessarael]

Look at Exotic Heavy weapons in Arcana Unearthed. Dire weapons do +2 damage and I think weigh double if I recall correctly.

 

[evilbob]

As far as I can tell without actually reading the book (thanks, Google!), that template adds +2 to damage, +50% weight, +300gp to base price, and requires an exotic weapon prof. (specifically, the unique one to AU). It's interesting, because that is actually much more powerful than what I had suggested. Even translating that to 3.5's exotic weapon proficiency method, you still get more damage per hit - at the cost of a little more gold. And, it has the added benefit of being a template and not a new weapon - which would mean that weapon focus and other weapon-specific feats would apply to the weapon. That's not a bad idea, but it does raise the power more than what I had above.

Also, my calculation on a dire greatsword (above) is incorrect. It would need to be 1d6+1d8, 1d10+1d4, or some other combination that leads to an average damage of either 8 or 8.5 (like a 1d16...).

Edit: Maybe my template should be renamed to "hand-and-a-half" weapons.

 

[Morgenstern]

Does anyone else find it hilarious that "Exotic Weapon Proficiency (Dire)" essentialy reads "Benefit: as per Weapon Specialization, with any weapon I paid 300gp extra for, and which weighs twice as much as normal."

+2 damage on a limited group of weapons for a feat - how novel .

 

[evilbob]

Except that it is even more powerful than weapon specialization, since it stacks with anything (including other weapon enhancements). I think part of the point is that Monte's AU book is best used with his other gaming rules; you can't really pick and choose a few ideas from that book and put them into a normal game, because a normal game isn't balanced for his new rules.