D&D 5E Do I get sneak attack if I throw a Rapier or whack someone with my heavy crossbow

[Swarmkeeper]

That’s because a handaxe has the thrown property. A dead goblin does not have the thrown property, therefore making a ranged weapon attack with one defaults to the normal rules for ranged weapon attacks, which is that they use Dexterity.

Ah - you are correct - thanks!

 

[Charlaquin]

EDIT: Therefore, I'd rule that a ranged attack using an improvised weapon uses Str.
Better?

It shouldn’t. If it’s a ranged weapon attack (regardless of whether it’s an attack being made with a ranged weapon), it uses Dexterity, unless it has the Finesse or Thrown property.

 

[Hriston]

Yes you are making a ranged (improvised) weapon attack, but that doesn't make it a ranged weapon. You must use a ranged weapon or a finesse weapon with the thrown property to use DEX. An improvised weapon has no properties and is neither a ranged nor melee weapon, it is an improvised weapon.

See post #61 for particulars.

It doesn’t have to be a ranged weapon. See the rules for ranged weapon attacks. They use Dexterity by default.

 

[Charlaquin]

Of course, the notion that you could throw a goblin with Dexterity also relies on the DM ruling that you can use a goblin as an improvised weapon, which I personally would not. A goblin is too unwieldy to be used as a weapon in my opinion.

 

[Hriston]

Of course, the notion that you could throw a goblin with Dexterity also relies on the DM ruling that you can use a goblin as an improvised weapon, which I personally would not. A goblin is too unwieldy to be used as a weapon in my opinion.

Booo!

 

[Swarmkeeper]

Of course, the notion that you could throw a goblin with Dexterity also relies on the DM ruling that you can use a goblin as an improvised weapon, which I personally would not. A goblin is too unwieldy to be used as a weapon in my opinion.

Mostly agree on this. I'd probably allow some kind of ranged attack with the thrown goblin, perhaps with disadvantage due to unwieldiness, but instead of causing any damage on a hit, it would be a STR save from the target to avoid being knocked prone or being knocked back 5'.

 

[Oofta]

Of course, the notion that you could throw a goblin with Dexterity also relies on the DM ruling that you can use a goblin as an improvised weapon, which I personally would not. A goblin is too unwieldy to be used as a weapon in my opinion.

The real question is, what about gnomes?

 

[DND_Reborn]

Whether a weapon is a melee weapon or a ranged weapon doesn’t actually matter for the purposes of determining whether you add your Strength or Dexterity modifier to the attack and damage roll. What matters is whether it’s a ranged weapon attack or a melee weapon attack (we know from Unarmed Strikes that an attack doesn’t need to be made with a melee weapon to count as a melee weapon attack; it follows logically that the same is true of ranged weapons and ranged weapon attacks).

From the combat section:

The ability modifier used for a melee weapon attack is Strength, and the ability modifier used for a ranged weapon attack is Dexterity. Weapons that have the Finesse or Thrown property break this rule.

And elsewhere in the book:

Attack Rolls and Damage [STR]​

You add your Strength modifier to your attack roll and your damage roll when attacking with a melee weapon such as a mace, a battleaxe, or a javelin. You use melee weapons to make melee attacks in hand-to-hand combat, and some of them can be thrown to make a ranged attack.

Attack Rolls and Damage [DEX]​

You add your Dexterity modifier to your attack roll and your damage roll when attacking with a ranged weapon, such as a sling or a longbow. You can also add your Dexterity modifier to your attack roll and your damage roll when attacking with a melee weapon that has the finesse property, such as a dagger or a rapier.

You might be making melee weapon attacks and ranged weapon attacks with an improvised weapon, but not "with a melee/ranged weapon."

An improvised weapon is neither a melee weapon nor a ranged weapon, it is its own thing. That is why you need proficiency in improvised weapons to add your proficiency bonus when attack with one; another issue I don't recall having been brought up (but I might have missed it...)

Back to Improvised Weapons:

An object that bears no resemblance to a weapon deals 1d4 damage (the DM assigns a damage type appropriate to the object). If a character uses a ranged weapon to make a melee attack, or throws a melee weapon that does not have the thrown property, it also deals 1d4 damage. An improvised thrown weapon has a normal range of 20 feet and a long range of 60 feet.

As an example, notice how improvised weapons (which we are discussing, of course), states only melee attack, not melee "weapon" attack, because it is not a melee weapon. And throwing one is just making a ranged attack, not a ranged "weapon" attack.

FWIW, unarmed strikes are their own can of worms.

Instead of using a weapon to make a melee weapon attack, you can use an unarmed strike: a punch, kick, head-butt, or similar forceful blow (none of which count as weapons). On a hit, an unarmed strike deals bludgeoning damage equal to 1 + your Strength modifier. You are proficient with your unarmed strikes.

Here, it specifies "melee weapon attack", so yes unarmed strikes use STR to attack and damage rolls.

Better?

No.

Anyway... of to work folks, I'll check back in late tonight to read your responses. And again, I am not arguing this is how I would run my game, just a (very) strict reading of the rules for the sake of discussion (and boredom--it has been a slow morning...).

 

[DND_Reborn]

The real question is, what about gnomes?

View attachment 132643

And halflings! Don't forget trying to figure out why we have both! LOL!

 

[TwoSix]

And halflings! Don't forget trying to figure out why we have both! LOL!

The PHB has never mentioned throwing halflings, unlike the many canonical examples of throwing elves and dwarves. This is obvious bias against halflings by the designers.