MonsterEnvy
Legend
They are not.
D&D General Do you want a 3D vtt?
- Thread starter darjr
- Start date
Benjamin Olson
Hero
I love using digital tabletop... in 2d. The premade assets available are legion, and while I don't always find what I'm looking for the search often inspires new ideas for characters, settings, encounters, etc, and I now have the tools and skills to make anything very particular that I really want if I need it badly enough to invest a few hours.
Maybe at some point in 10+ years there will be a sufficient library of 3d tabletop assets for me to have a similar relationship with it, and maybe the right tools will exist to make creating my own when I can't find the thing I really need a similarly achievable feat, and maybe I'll care enough to develop the skills to use them. At the pace at which AI assisted art creation is developing maybe it will only be 5 years from now and maybe it will be very easy indeed. But I just feel like it is intrinsically much more difficult to make 3d assets than 2d, so democratizing the 3d asset creation process the way 2d asset creation has been requires some serious software breakthroughs.
And, I don't really see what 3d gets us. Yes it would deal with flight, multilevel environments, and underwater scenarios a lot better, but those are a comparatively small part of the game because physical tabletop struggles with them as well. Meanwhile the cost of 3d VTT is that there is definitely going to be a period of it having substantially less available assets and tools for creating assets than 2d; a major constraint on creativity. Unless there is major technological advancements and very wide adoption of 3d, that will remain the case indefinitely.
Maybe 3d is the future of the game, but right now it's mostly a silly gimmick, and probably will remain so for the life of the upcoming edition. I think at best WotC is making a big investment in it one edition to early.
Maybe at some point in 10+ years there will be a sufficient library of 3d tabletop assets for me to have a similar relationship with it, and maybe the right tools will exist to make creating my own when I can't find the thing I really need a similarly achievable feat, and maybe I'll care enough to develop the skills to use them. At the pace at which AI assisted art creation is developing maybe it will only be 5 years from now and maybe it will be very easy indeed. But I just feel like it is intrinsically much more difficult to make 3d assets than 2d, so democratizing the 3d asset creation process the way 2d asset creation has been requires some serious software breakthroughs.
And, I don't really see what 3d gets us. Yes it would deal with flight, multilevel environments, and underwater scenarios a lot better, but those are a comparatively small part of the game because physical tabletop struggles with them as well. Meanwhile the cost of 3d VTT is that there is definitely going to be a period of it having substantially less available assets and tools for creating assets than 2d; a major constraint on creativity. Unless there is major technological advancements and very wide adoption of 3d, that will remain the case indefinitely.
Maybe 3d is the future of the game, but right now it's mostly a silly gimmick, and probably will remain so for the life of the upcoming edition. I think at best WotC is making a big investment in it one edition to early.
MonsterEnvy
Legend
I think we have to see more before writing it off like that.
Benjamin Olson
Hero
Maybe, but my overall argument is that the technology doesn't just have to get there to have a solid 3d vtt with some good assets and good functionality for it to really become an integral part of the hobby. It has to get to a place where creating your own assets for a 3d VTT is not vastly more difficult than creating them for 2d VTT (such that vast numbers of people create vast numbers of assets). Furthermore, at present WotC themselves produce a vast number of art assets for books (and magic cards) that can trivially be turned into tokens and handouts for a 2d VTT game, and maps for their modules that can be plopped straight into a 2d VTT, as do a vast array of 3rd party publishers.
I'm sure there will be really cool 3d VTTs in the near future that will be a lot of fun within their limited options, but there have to be multiple software breakthroughs and a major shift in the industry towards creating 3d art assets for published modules for 3d VTTs to win over most of us 2d VTT folks. This seems vastly more plausible to work out with the inevitable 2034 edition than the 2024 edition.
So, sure, my calling it a "gimmick" is a prediction that very well might age like milk (like all predictions), but given the underlying structural natures of the hobby and industry and the technological hurdles it presents I'll happily make the bet that 3d VTTs will not be a major part of most people's OneD&D experience.
I also think WotC knows this. I think the push has more to do with impressing investors and executives who don't play D&D and are baffled by these weird book games, who will see a videogame-like product in the 3d VTT experiment and think "okay, this makes sense for Hasbro to spend money on, I know what video games are, and they make tons of money", and has less to do with really hoping to make it a major aspect of their products in the OneD&D generation.
darjr
I crit!
maybe mistake is too strong.
Defiantly something I don't want and I don't really see a big demand for it. The big and growing vtt's are all 2d. That might be due to a variety of issues but I do think 2d preference is a big one of those reasons.
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Totally agree, at the very minimum one would want 2d maps of the countryside.
HaroldTheHobbit
Hero
My table play via Foundry, but I still try to keep stuff relatively simple. Too much flash and video gameyness distract the players, and sucks valuable prep time for me as GM. So no, I don't want or need a 3D vtt.
But sure, if and when there's a low-cost, low-system req, easy to prep 3D VTT with lots and lots of available assets I probably try it. I doubt though that we see it in the near future.
But sure, if and when there's a low-cost, low-system req, easy to prep 3D VTT with lots and lots of available assets I probably try it. I doubt though that we see it in the near future.
Plaguescarred
Hero
I don't want or need a 3D VT that is closer to reality or video game ever more, all i need is a plateform to lay down cool maps and creatures to move onto like in my kitchen.
Greg Benage
Legend
I think it could be really cool if it worked, but I'm skeptical on the latter. I really don't want my D&D sessions to be derailed by technical issues, especially since the range of hardware in our group extends from low-end to high-end. I also think it would, perhaps dramatically, increase the cost to produce the content I really value (dungeons/adventure locations, monsters, etc.), and the natural inclination would be for the producer to minimize this kind of content to control costs.
Withywarlock
Villager
I would very much like one because the likelihood of me finding an in-person group to play with is between zilch and nil. If 3D is the closest I'll get to the physical tabletop, warts and all, I'll take it.
I appreciate why others may not like it though: by its very nature it's going to require a lot more work to make maps and models, it's going to demand more of computers and browsers running it, and if they're going to do something like that I'd rather they go all the way with animation... which again requires more work than most will put in. Sometimes you don't need 3D models and maps for a countryside trail or a camp or an unimportant hut, and it would be wasteful to do such a thing. However, some people would enjoy making them and more would enjoy moving their characters around it. But who's making the content, who's allowing what on their VTT, who's paying for it, and how much?
Virtual tabletops already have enough technical hurdles, and 3D will only introduce more. In a way I can already see the problems with it, in the same way too many accessories brought to a physical table slow things down. Bells and whistles make a lot of noise.
At the very least I'd give it a go. If I don't like it, there's always 2D.
I appreciate why others may not like it though: by its very nature it's going to require a lot more work to make maps and models, it's going to demand more of computers and browsers running it, and if they're going to do something like that I'd rather they go all the way with animation... which again requires more work than most will put in. Sometimes you don't need 3D models and maps for a countryside trail or a camp or an unimportant hut, and it would be wasteful to do such a thing. However, some people would enjoy making them and more would enjoy moving their characters around it. But who's making the content, who's allowing what on their VTT, who's paying for it, and how much?
Virtual tabletops already have enough technical hurdles, and 3D will only introduce more. In a way I can already see the problems with it, in the same way too many accessories brought to a physical table slow things down. Bells and whistles make a lot of noise.
At the very least I'd give it a go. If I don't like it, there's always 2D.
