King Babar
God Learner
For me it was bringing chips and pizza to each session.
Gotta grease up those dice.
D&D General Do you want a 3D vtt?
- Thread starter darjr
- Start date
Gotta grease up those dice.
Steel_Wind
Legend
Lemme tell ya all about the microtransactions to purchase miniatures...
Azzy
ᚳᚣᚾᛖᚹᚢᛚᚠ
As a former WH40K addict, you ain't joking.
Vaalingrade
Legend
Ironically, the only minis I ever used before being gifted a fully painted mini of an NPC the party loved was the little paper cutouts from an issue of Dragon.
MNblockhead
A Title Much Cooler Than Anything on the Old Site
Not a fan of 3D. Worry it will get in the way and require too much fiddling around with the viewer and with movement, etc. But if very well executed I could be won over for official, fully prepped adventures. I don't think I would want to prep my own maps in a 3D environment.
But 2D or 3D, I'll have no interest unless it has excellent support and automations for the rules. If it can handle applying area of effect damage and conditions, track conditions, and help combat run quicker and more smoothly I could see using it even if the graphic display or user interface isn't ideal in other aspects.
But 2D or 3D, I'll have no interest unless it has excellent support and automations for the rules. If it can handle applying area of effect damage and conditions, track conditions, and help combat run quicker and more smoothly I could see using it even if the graphic display or user interface isn't ideal in other aspects.
MonsterEnvy
Legend
That’s why it should be 3d. So it’s not competing with those things at the same level.
Hussar
Legend
As someone who's gamed through VTT longer than I've actually gamed in person (wow, I just realized that I started gaming VTT in 2002- yikes) I've got probably considerably more experience with VTT play than most people.
And even I voted Maybe.
It's going to come down to a few points that will make or break the VTT:
And even I voted Maybe.
It's going to come down to a few points that will make or break the VTT:
- Ease of creating material. That's probably the number one thing right there. My current group is six people. We've all DM'd at various points. Of the six of us, only two of us will DM Fantasy Grounds because it's just too damn hard to figure out for the others. The constant mucking about with syntax and getting everything exactly right is just too much of a PITA for the other four. So, this VTT needs to be simple enough and robust enough that using it is no more difficult than pen and paper.
- Technical aspects. This was mentioned earlier, but, unlike a lot of AAA video games, you cannot expect your users to be using top of the line equipment. If you're making a game for a PS5, you KNOW what technology they have. But a D&D VTT user might be someone like me who's currently writing this on a 2013 MacBook Air. ((My desktop machine is a bit newer but still nowhere even close to middle of the line)) While high speed internet is pretty common now, you still can't exactly presume it, so, that's an issue too. I've wasted far, far too much game time on tech issues.
- Bringing the value. Ok, this one's a no brainer, but, for the VTT to succeed, it's going to have to bring something to the table that I can't already get. Granted, that might simply be things like a better GUI (looking at you Fantasy Grounds) or better looking (Yeah, sorry Roll20 but you is ugly). But, it has to be something.
That "it's an underserved niche" makes a few assumptions though
- is there a gameplay use case that needsthe jump?...
- Is that use case something other than supporting microtransactions better than 2d tokens?
- If that use case is something else, what is it?
- does that use case depends on hardware that is an unrealistic buy like an occulus/meta VR headset or hololens?
- Can a new product provide enough assets to support GMs using it instead of the dramatically supported 2d ones?
- If so is a single GM able to deploy those assets for an enjoyable game week after week or does it require a dedicated team of highly paid professionals like ESPN & stadium tech like this?
What "level" is it competing at?
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MonsterEnvy
Legend
so we don’t know any of those details. We don’t even know if Micro transactions will be involved yet. Though it’s not likely to need a notable purchase as it’s just using the Unreal Engine.
Edit: the preview we got looked nicer than that tech demo.
You do know that a some of the modern VTTs other than roll20 load with this
What do 3d assets add to that year+ old video & what I've been doing at my table without touch the year or two prior to them adding support?
MonsterEnvy
Legend
It looks nice. That and being easy to use are all that is required.
Did you watch the video? VTT stuff starts at 4 minutes.
MichaelSomething
Legend
For reference, has anyone here ever played Gary's Mod???
Yes months ago... "more minis. more options for character customization"... What does that do for me as a GM? I have tons of monster tokens & can do things like link a torch/sword/mace/shield image to them if I need to for some reason(spoiler: almost never). Who is the primary target user of this VTT, GMs or players?
That last bit is the big problem with the announcement teaser. & what the vtt has to offer gm's. Players aren't going to be buying /building TV boxes & tables or building dungeons week after week in it but it is mostly focused on appealing to players. The interface and ui I needs I have while being a gm are going to differ from while being a player but the gm is usually the one who makes the decision on which vtt to use. What does 3d do for me as a gm and how much work does that save me or create for me? The vtt might be too early in development to show that answer. That "too early but.." would be understandable if they at least mentioned what the 3d or this vtt expects to do for me as a gm in ways the announcement did not. The only "too early but" features it seems to mention are monitizing my players or selling me token image replacements that are in 3d. Even using it for AL games I've never once had a player push back on me using a vtt at the table for map stuff in like five years because their workload is saying "here" while pointing or touching the screen. When an announcement seems so clearly mistarketed & hints at microtransactions its hard not to be skeptical of the benefits I'm expected to find on my own.
I voted no. I am not a VTT fan in general (just not my preferred style of play). When we switched to online during Covid I ran TotM style online. It worked well. Since then I found Owlbear Rodeo and used that some online due to its ease of use. Ease of use is by far my number one criteria for using a VTT.
MonsterEnvy
Legend
Both
That's part of the problem though, they aren't marketing it that way & it's not really used that way. Players aren't the ones who need to adopt the vtt because the GM is the one who does most of the work involved in building dungeons/running the game/etc. Taking that a step further they might not even be the ones who buy the hardware running/displaying the vtt itself. "we might give you a premade campaign from us that has an exciting castle or keep with a dungeon inside of it. Exciting NPCs... But then you're going to be able to take this playset, take it apart & build your own. We're going to have a really robust tool for you to create your own dungeons" That's about the only part talking to the GM but the video is exclusively showing the player view of that stuff or is swooping over a view that is at best of questionable use to me as a GM. A couple powerpoint slides telling me anything about the "really robust tool" or what things the GM interface is planned to support/enable might have been even more useful in that section. Instead it swoops a playerside view over some skeletons towards a dragon on a raised dias like a player might see as a GM is describing it.
Well, I think asking my friend to leave the game to drive back home so they can follow the fight scene on their computer before getting back would kill the mood of my playing sessions.
I agree that it looks nice, more than a 2d color battlemap inexpensively printed on vinyl, but I still think throwing dice in physical tabletop is easier than getting your phone, loading the dicerolling app, telling your friends the results because they likely won't see it... No, frankly, I don't want a 3D VTT. I don't have 3D tabletop (only flat terrain) and it was enough for my enjoyment. Switching to 3D, whether physical through building decors or, more easily, through a computer, might not help me to have more immersive sessions (if anything, I feel the focus on the computer would lessen the immersion). Also, it would need, more seriously than sending everyone home, to have the group focusing on a computer by the gaming table, which is not very practical compared to just pulling a map on the table and using glass beads and physical tokens to represent a scene when TotM becomes too difficult to ensure everyone is on the same page.
I might get interested in a 3D computer VTT if it is really to use (maybe by having a large library of set pieces, on par with battlemap one can find on the Internet, only with better quality to make interesting fights), and the total price of investment to have a "digital gaming table" like the one in the surface demo + virtual tabletop price drops around the same price tag as printing 2D maps (which is under 2 € a map if grouping your prints) over the long run. So I could be convinced, but the requirements are stringent.
Also, the fact that I don't want it for me doesn't mean that I want other to suffer by depriving them of it. If a company (WotC or another) offers a 3D tabletop, more power to them.
I agree that it looks nice, more than a 2d color battlemap inexpensively printed on vinyl, but I still think throwing dice in physical tabletop is easier than getting your phone, loading the dicerolling app, telling your friends the results because they likely won't see it... No, frankly, I don't want a 3D VTT. I don't have 3D tabletop (only flat terrain) and it was enough for my enjoyment. Switching to 3D, whether physical through building decors or, more easily, through a computer, might not help me to have more immersive sessions (if anything, I feel the focus on the computer would lessen the immersion). Also, it would need, more seriously than sending everyone home, to have the group focusing on a computer by the gaming table, which is not very practical compared to just pulling a map on the table and using glass beads and physical tokens to represent a scene when TotM becomes too difficult to ensure everyone is on the same page.
I might get interested in a 3D computer VTT if it is really to use (maybe by having a large library of set pieces, on par with battlemap one can find on the Internet, only with better quality to make interesting fights), and the total price of investment to have a "digital gaming table" like the one in the surface demo + virtual tabletop price drops around the same price tag as printing 2D maps (which is under 2 € a map if grouping your prints) over the long run. So I could be convinced, but the requirements are stringent.
Also, the fact that I don't want it for me doesn't mean that I want other to suffer by depriving them of it. If a company (WotC or another) offers a 3D tabletop, more power to them.
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