D&D 5E Does the Artificer Suck?

[doctorbadwolf]

Sure, but that takes away the coolest benefit - the disadvantage to attack allies - which is the melee only option.

Plenty of folks are looking at armorer to be iron man, not to be a melee tank.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

I think you read too much into what I'm saying and argue with what you are reading into it - trying to force the conversation to conform to those assumptions.

The point stands that if the main purpose of your subclass is control and getting enemies to not attack your allies that wizards do it much better than armorer's. Heck, monks do it much better as well. You are a bit better at it than ancestral guardian Barbarians though and most any fighter or paladin.


You are adding alot to my words to reach the conclusion that those positions are mine. I don't advocate for all wizard parties. I don't advocate for all ranged parties. I'm one of the strongest advocates for a well rounded and mixed party that you can find. So please don't put those positions in my mouth.

I also never said that they are the best at it nor that this is their only purpose.
I just said, that they can do this with minimal effort.
And I add: for a beginner, it is a very easy way to go. It is hard to do it wrong, since your chassis does the job well enough.

I never said, that a wizard using spells wisely is not good at it, but my experience is that most people at the don't use the wizard's full potential. Instead they waste slots for minimal effect.
I don't even exclude me. If one doesn't have full knowledge of the challenge, and one doesnn't want to break the flow of the game, sometimes one uses slots suboptimal. So being able to rely on at-will abilities is a big boon (in a not overoptimized game).

 

[Stoutstien]

IMO the armorer is fine due to having two modes but only fine because it's not easy to switch between them in a tight time restriction. Wish it had a once a day action mode switch.

 

[Cap'n Kobold]

He was good at combat, good with spells, and could get an AC of 26 at 2nd level. IIRC the demon princes in the Out of the Abyss adventure are AC 22-26. Almost unhittable with the monsters I had in the game, so he requires other things to slow him down or challenge him.

That 26 AC would have required them to cast Shield wouldn't it? That only lasts one round, and at that level they can only cast it twice a day. For the other 18 or so rounds of combat, their AC should be much lower.

Cool yes. Damage isn't the only metric but it's important one to recognize. In that line of thought an evoker wizard at level 11 using firebolt does more direct damage than them.

Well, I compared them to a Wizards cantrips damage to show they were quite lacking in the damage department. The reply I got was that they got a bunch of other stuff to make up for it, which essentially ignored all the better stuff wizards get at that level.

I'm missing something I think. The Evoker is dealing 22 damage a round using a cantrip. Even a Guardian armourer is probably dealing a hair under 30 damage each round without using resources. Infiltrator a bit more, or a lot more if they start leveraging Sharpshooter.

 

[ECMO3]

I never said, that a wizard using spells wisely is not good at it, but my experience is that most people at the don't use the wizard's full potential. Instead they waste slots for minimal effect.
I don't even exclude me. If one doesn't have full knowledge of the challenge, and one doesnn't want to break the flow of the game, sometimes one uses slots suboptimal. So being able to rely on at-will abilities is a big boon (in a not overoptimized game).

I don't know about all that. Wizards generally only have a couple spells of each level prepared, so once your long rest is over there is not a ton of options.

for example if you are a first level wizard and your prepared spells are shield, charm person, feather fall and protection from good and evil and you are in the middle of a fight with an orc, the only spell you can cast that will do anything is charm person, even though he gets advantage on the save and it will go away when he takes damage. Similarly if you are fighting skeletons the only thing you can cast is PEG.

Also most wizards I play often go to bed with spell slots and the most suboptimal use is to not use them at all.

 

[ECMO3]

That 26 AC would have required them to cast Shield wouldn't it? That only lasts one round, and at that level they can only cast it twice a day. For the other 18 or so rounds of combat, their AC should be much lower.

At 2nd level for a full caster it is 3 times a day. You do have a point BUT shield is cast as a reaction after you are hit so it is really not 18 or so rounds. CR1 monsters rolling into a 21 (without shield) would normally only hit once or twice in 18 turns so more than likely it is every time they need it.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

At 2nd level for a full caster it is 3 times a day. You do have a point BUT shield is cast as a reaction after you are hit so it is really not 18 or so rounds. CR1 monsters rolling into a 21 (without shield) would normally only hit once or twice in 18 turns so more than likely it is every time they need it.

Wait how does a level 2 non Bladesinger Wizard have 21 AC?

Also like…I don’t think most people play wizards to be a tank.

 

[Cap'n Kobold]

At 2nd level for a full caster it is 3 times a day. You do have a point BUT shield is cast as a reaction after you are hit so it is really not 18 or so rounds. CR1 monsters rolling into a 21 (without shield) would normally only hit once or twice in 18 turns so more than likely it is every time they need it.

Artificers are half casters, not full casters. They only have two spell slots at 2nd level.

 

[FrogReaver]

That 26 AC would have required them to cast Shield wouldn't it? That only lasts one round, and at that level they can only cast it twice a day. For the other 18 or so rounds of combat, their AC should be much lower.




I'm missing something I think. The Evoker is dealing 22 damage a round using a cantrip. Even a Guardian armourer is probably dealing a hair under 30 damage each round without using resources. Infiltrator a bit more, or a lot more if they start leveraging Sharpshooter.

Where the 30 coming from?

 

[Stoutstien]

Wait how does a level 2 non Bladesinger Wizard have 21 AC?

Also like…I don’t think most people play wizards to be a tank.

Warforged(+1) + enhanced defense infusion(+1)+ half-plate and shield(+19)

Most wizards become tanks regardless if they wanted too or not.