D&D 5E Does the Artificer Suck?

[UngeheuerLich]

Armorer looks a lot of fun level 9. I think they need half of that ability earlier and the rest at 9.

All artificers get decent lvl 10 I can even build an ok combat alchemist that level.

Why do you want to build a combat alchemist (you can add quite some damage, but it really is not its strength).

I really think, you have too many long rests. A (basic) rogue at level 7 is only strong if you have more than one encounter per rest, since the rogue is neither reliant on short nor long rests.
In the most simple way they attack with advantage for 5d6+4 damage at level 7 and can reduce incoming damage quite well.

An alchemist has a 2d10+4 damage cantrip and can have a flaming sphere up in 3 combats with a good concentration saving throw. They can also hand out some useful potions and flash of geniuses and magic items.

It does not compare to what a bard is doing at that point, but that is difficult anyway.

An artillerist at that point does 2d10+1d8 damage and 2d6 area damage as an off hand attack without spending meaningful ressources, which compares to the rogues contribution.
Both are decent with thieves tools.

 

[Zardnaar]

Why do you want to build a combat alchemist (you can add quite some damage, but it really is not its strength).

I really think, you have too many long rests. A (basic) rogue at level 7 is only strong if you have more than one encounter per rest, since the rogue is neither reliant on short nor long rests.
In the most simple way they attack with advantage for 5d6+4 damage at level 7 and can reduce incoming damage quite well.

An alchemist has a 2d10+4 damage cantrip and can have a flaming sphere up in 3 combats with a good concentration saving throw. They can also hand out some useful potions and flash of geniuses and magic items.

It does not compare to what a bard is doing at that point, but that is difficult anyway.

An artillerist at that point does 2d10+1d8 damage and 2d6 area damage as an off hand attack without spending meaningful ressources, which compares to the rogues contribution.
Both are decent with thieves tools.

Alchemist. Gauntlets of Ogre Power,weapon, booming blade/gfb.

 

[Stoutstien]

Don't forget you can stack a magical weapon and the EAF infusions at lower levels for some decent attack numbers even with a lower Dex as an alchemist. Has the side benefit of buffing homunculus attack as well.
Won't wow anyone but it's steadily above most people's baseline.

 

[FrozenNorth]

Also of note: Only 1 very specific fighter uses SS+XBE+Precision attack to get high DPR numbers. Take away any of those feats/manuevers and the damage drops pretty fast.

Conversely, include all of them and you have a fighter with virtually no options outside of combat, compared to an artificer that is still pretty effective the moment the solution to a challenge isn’t “bring something down to 0 hp”.

 

[FrogReaver]

At higher levels the half cover benefit is a bigger deal, especially since you can stick a THP cannon in your tank’s backpack, hold your damage cannon, and your frontline has free THP and an AC boost, while your back line has an AC boost and you’re doing 2d8 force or 2d8 AOE fire as a bonus action.

They also have a great extra spell list, and do extra damage with attack spells. In actual play experience, they kick ass.

There's a vast distance between sucking and kicking ass. I'm not saying they suck, but kick ass seems a little strong. (They do kick ass at level 3 though due to the amount of temp hp they can dish out compared to enemy damage).

What build? That’s the thing, none of the artificer subclasses need any special build to shine. If you’re referring to my level 6 comment, IMO the armorer benefits more from having more infusions, especially if you prefer Guardian armor, so level 6 is where the armorer stops feeling restricted by the small number of infusions.

Yes, that's the part I was really wondering about.

Obviously it really takes off at level 9, but it’s solid and fun from level 3.

Alchemist isn’t even “bad”, it just isn’t a damage-focused specialty.

Alchemist still seems pretty bad to me. Your not really explaining what it can do that makes it good, you are just stating it is.

My biggest complaint of the artificer is simply that it puts too many very strong options in the same space as fluff ribbon options in the infusions, gives too few infusions overall especially at low levels, and overvalues the power level of some stuff and thus puts it too high in the level progression or limits it too much.

When I say it could have more Spellcasting without losing anything, it’s because it’s a generally solid class but it has room to grow, and it’s combat power is generally very at-will so more spells is mostly going to boost utility.

Sure

 

[AtomicPope]

I ran a campaign, that was derailed by COVID, and it was 3 players all playing Artificers. The neat part was they all chose a different Subclass, and none where "competing" with other classes. One thing I noticed about Artificers is they lack Cantrips. Lots of these half casters need more Cantrips to flesh out their niche because they don't have the regular spells and often they don't have the skills. I gave each of them one thematic combat Cantrip (Artillerist got Firebolt, Alchemist got Acid Splash, and Battlesmith got Booming Blade). Later on we added one non-combat utility cantrip. It may not seem like much but in reality it means a LOT. Each Subclass needs to fill that niche quickly and Cantrips helped. It freed up their selections for better customization. I got the idea from some of the new Warlock and Sorcerer Subclasses where they were eager to add a Cantrip or two ensuring the theme was embedded in the Subclass.

 

[FrogReaver]

Conversely, include all of them and you have a fighter with virtually no options outside of combat, compared to an artificer that is still pretty effective the moment the solution to a challenge isn’t “bring something down to 0 hp”.

Yep. And when you factor in defensive potential the Battlesmith artificer might actually be better at combat despite having a bit lower offensive prowess.

Steel Defender can cause disadvantage on 1 attack against you per round with it's reaction.
You have shield and absorb elements spells.

Those abilities tend to be alot more valuable than a little extra hp and second wind.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

Alchemist. Gauntlets of Ogre Power,weapon, booming blade/gfb.

Possible and not bad at all.

Didn't think about it because in the Eberron book it wasn't available. A straight buff for non extra attack artificers.

 

[Warpiglet-7]

Possible and not bad at all.

I am planning got go strength with artificer…up to a point. There is not need to go all in on the attack stat when guantlets are available at 10.

belt of giant strength is available later on.

I know it’s NOT optimal but I was thinking about artillerist with weapon master for a maul to go with booming or gfb.

all of that said, the real problem is lack of cantrips. I want 3 vs 2. If I do magic initiate, that is a fine choice (maybe find familiar to boot) but that draws a feat as well. Would love heavily armored…

almost as rough as blade warlocks of old but not quite.

many hard decisions to go str…

 

[FrozenNorth]

almost as rough as blade warlocks of old but not quite.

many hard decisions to go str…

Honestly, this is the real problem. There are just so many classes (including artificers) for which going Dex is just a net benefit compared to going Str.

The only classes for which going Str is comparable (not even superior, comparable!) are barbarian, fighter and cleric.