Dr Strange 2: In the Multiverse of Madness (Spoilers)

[Stalker0]

Can we look as Hawkeye as Ronin. Because it seems he fell a lot further than Wanda in trauma response, she just has more power at her fingertips to do things about it.

At the end of the day though, scale does matter. People kill each other every day, but that guy with the nuke....yeah I'm watching every move he makes, because if he has a bad day..... a LOT of people are going to die.

Wong and Strange saw Wanda for what she was.... a multiversal threat. You just can't let that kind of destructive power do what it wants, because a "little evil" from Wanda will do more damage than a lifetime of "big evil" that Clint could muster.

 

[Blue]

At the end of the day though, scale does matter. People kill each other every day, but that guy with the nuke....yeah I'm watching every move he makes, because if he has a bad day..... a LOT of people are going to die.

Wong and Strange saw Wanda for what she was.... a multiversal threat. You just can't let that kind of destructive power do what it wants, because a "little evil" from Wanda will do more damage than a lifetime of "big evil" that Clint could muster.

But the contention I was replying to was about treating the character differently due to gender differences. Everything you are saying is true, but does not change that they had Clint fall further and without the Darkhold as provocation. Heck, if Strange was "reasonable" and willing to give up one life instead of all the ones that were lost, then Ronin's death toll would have been much higher as well - with the less power.

I agree what you are saying about the level of power, but I don't think it changes that Marvel have had characters of different genders fall hard and didn't only give that treatment to a woman.

 

[Enevhar Aldarion]

This made it to Disney+ today in the US, not sure about other countries, so I finally got to see it. I enjoyed it, but some things definitely confused me about timelines and universes. I need to read through this thread now and poke around online and see if my questions are answered before I ask them in this comment.

 

[Morrus]

I can confirm that this is now a film that I have seen. It was... a film, I guess?

 

[pukunui]

This made it to Disney+ today in the US, not sure about other countries, so I finally got to see it. I enjoyed it, but some things definitely confused me about timelines and universes. I need to read through this thread now and poke around online and see if my questions are answered before I ask them in this comment.

It's available on Disney+ here in NZ as well. Since I saw it in the theater previously, I'm not really in any hurry to watch it again. I'm still of two minds about it. I enjoyed it as a film, but I'm not sure I particularly like the direction they took Wanda in.

It was also disappointing to see the Illuminati characters get killed off so quickly - but I guess the whole multiverse thing means that they can show up again as other variants of themselves. To paraphrase Luke Skywalker, in the MCU multiverse, no one's ever really gone.

 

[Rune]

Or, wouldn't there be some Branches where Wanda was killed, and the children left as orphans?

Wanda: "Hey, America, my alternate died in Branch XYZ, could you send me over there so that I could look after the children she left behind?"

America: Sure thing!

TomB

My assumption is that the Darkhold never showed her any such versions.

 

[Enevhar Aldarion]

It's a fairly big time jump. It's been at least one, maybe two years between Wandavision and Multiverse of Madness. Wandavision took place pretty much directly after Endgame, in 2023. Multiverse happens after Spiderman: No Way Home, which takes place in late 2024. It's unclear how long after, but definitively after (it could be in the interval between The Big Fight and Peter swinging around at Christmas in the end scene, so it's possible but unlikely that Multiverse is in 2024 but more likely to be 2025).

And two years with a Book of Evil Badness working its way into Wanda's mind? Yeah, I'll buy her becoming unhinged.

Okay, late to the party, but a couple of things to clear up in the MCU timeline, as it unfolds in the future because of the 5-year time jump for Endgame. Yes, Endgame is wraps up in Oct 2023. Wandavision takes place almost right after, end of Oct and first couple of weeks of Nov. Yes, that is all, because all the seeming time passing during the show was all an illusion inside the town. Outside of Westview, maybe 3 weeks total pass. Falcon & Winter Soldier is about April 2024, as it was stated in the show that events were about 6 months after people returned. Spider Man: Far From Home is June/July 2024, with the end-of-school-year class trip. No Way Home picks up shortly after, and is still 2024, with the big battle and the final memory-erasing spell happening in Nov. Hawkeye is Christmas 2024, despite some incorrect claims it is 2025. According to official timelines, Multiverse of Madness is apparently some time in 2025. With the warmish weather in New York City, it would have to be at least Spring. Definitely too nice to be late Nov/early Dec in NYC.

So Wanda has the Darkhold for around a year and a half to study and learn and become corrupted by it. When she started using the magic to hunt America is unknown. How Wanda even discovered she, and her power, existed, is not explained, especially since there seems to be only one of America in all the multiverse, if the whole dream thing is accurate. Hearing the voices of the boys crying out for help in the final end-credit scene of WandaVision does not match up well to MoM, probably because Raimi did not fully watch the series. We should probably just pretend that scene never happened to make the transition smoother. Sadly, one was setting up for her to do the heroic thing and rescue her boys, while what we get was her going bad and wanting to kidnap her boys out of a happy life.

 

[Thomas Shey]

Hearing the voices of the boys crying out for help in the final end-credit scene of WandaVision does not match up well to MoM, probably because Raimi did not fully watch the series. We should probably just pretend that scene never happened to make the transition smoother. Sadly, one was setting up for her to do the heroic thing and rescue her boys, while what we get was her going bad and wanting to kidnap her boys out of a happy life.

I still think there's a fair probability that there was originally a version of the storyline where they did follow-up on that, but it made her a bit too sympathetic to make a proper villain. There were some reshoots for something.

 

[Tonguez]

. Hearing the voices of the boys crying out for help in the final end-credit scene of WandaVision does not match up well to MoM, probably because Raimi did not fully watch the series. We should probably just pretend that scene never happened to make the transition smoother. Sadly, one was setting up for her to do the heroic thing and rescue her boys, while what we get was her going bad and wanting to kidnap her boys out of a happy life.

why doesnt it match up though? Theres no indication that they were crying out to her specifically - just that she heard the voices of her sons calling out for their mother - its Wandas corrupted delusion that tells her that She is the mother they need

we dont even know if the alternate kids in the movie were the same ones she heard calling

 

[Stalker0]

why doesnt it match up though? Theres no indication that they were crying out to her specifically - just that she heard the voices of her sons calling out for their mother - its Wandas corrupted delusion that tells her that She is the mother they need

we dont even know if the alternate kids in the movie were the same ones she heard calling

Agreed. Its not paint by numbers, but everything is there for you to connect the dots if you want to believe. Darkhold opens up Wanda to alternate dimensions, Wanda starts seeing (hearing) her kids from alternate dimensions (which is what we see in Wandavision). Darkhold keeps taking her further....only she can protect the children, it is her right to have them, etc.

While I will agree that Wanda's heel turn does seem a bit too quick (though in terms of time passing, like a year and a half I believe, its actually not that slow), I do think the Darkhold provides whatever narrative boost you need to get Wanda to villain. If you were already on the train that says Wanda was going villain anyway, the Darkhold gave her a nudge. If you think she was on the redemptive path....the book gave her a shove. You could argue that we have already done the trope of "Wanda being manipulated by outside forces", and I can respect that....but the book really does allow you to get Wanda as low as you want her to go.

In short summary, I can respect the argument, "This character arc with Wanda is stupid and contrived". But I don't respect the argument, "Wanda would never do that...even though she is under the influence of a super evil, super corrupting book for more than a year"