Dragon Disciple PrC

[Tempuswolf]

Actually, nothing's changed. This is how it always worked.

Hmm, I remember reading that in the sidebar in the newest Dragon Mag, but I don't agree with it because it changes to much stuff.

Compare the STR Damage bonuses of a lion, crocodile, and elephant. If the natural weapon is the primary weapon of a multiattack routine, it gets a x1 STR Damage bonus (lion's claw, elephant's slam). If the natural weapon is the only weapon in a routine, it gets a x1.5 STR Damage bonus (crocodile's bite, crocodile's tail slap, elephant's gore).

 

[SpikeyFreak]

Re: Actually, nothing's changed. This is how it always worked.

Compare the STR Damage bonuses of a lion, crocodile, and elephant. If the natural weapon is the primary weapon of a multiattack routine, it gets a x1 STR Damage bonus (lion's claw, elephant's slam). If the natural weapon is the only weapon in a routine, it gets a x1.5 STR Damage bonus (crocodile's bite, crocodile's tail slap, elephant's gore).

But 1.5 x str mod every time they attack with one weapon is new rule. It is no where in the core rules, the FAQ, or any sage advice, which means its not cannon.

Not to mention the DM is going to have to rule on what size the natural weapon is everytime a creature attacks once with a natural weapon, because you can't get 1.5x str mod on damage with a weapon that is 2 sizes smaller than you are.

It's a dumb ruling that isn't consistant with the rules. I agree that the creatures listed should do that damage, but saying that a bear or a dragon does 1.5 x str mod when he does a standard action attack would just cause problems and it is nowhere in the rules.

--Anti-New-Rule Spikey

 

[SpikeyFreak]

On a side note: That would be entirely up to your interpretation. IMO these advancing monsters where not always of that size, they grew there from the more basic variant of their own species. It is not as if these advanced creatures are a new species. So they DID gain it because of gaining a size category IMO.

Yes, and when you size them up using those rules, they get the bonuses and penalties for being larger.

But saying that a Dragon Disciple sudenly gets +8 strength at 5th level is ludicrous. Especially when the class DOES get +8 to strength, just not all at once. He isn't gaining large size because he's advancing in HD, he's gaining it because it is a class feature.

One of the best melee min/maxing classes would be the Dragon Disc. if you do it that way. Seems kinda wrong for a class that requires spell casting ability and a knowledge skill. Not to mention it's in the sorcerer and wizard class book.

--Growing Spikey

 

[Ysgarran]

Wizards thread that talks about the Drgn Dscpl size increase with some included comments from the Sage...

http://boards.wizards.com/rpg/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic&f=120&t=000169


Ysgarran.

p.s.
The munchkin in me would love a +16 str increase. The DM says no.

 

[Ysgarran]

heh, my first double post...

 

[Tempuswolf]

Re: Actually, nothing's changed. This is how it always worked.

But 1.5 x str mod every time they attack with one weapon is new rule. It is no where in the core rules, the FAQ, or any sage advice, which means its not cannon.

Not to mention the DM is going to have to rule on what size the natural weapon is everytime a creature attacks once with a natural weapon, because you can't get 1.5x str mod on damage with a weapon that is 2 sizes smaller than you are.

It's a dumb ruling that isn't consistant with the rules. I agree that the creatures listed should do that damage, but saying that a bear or a dragon does 1.5 x str mod when he does a standard action attack would just cause problems and it is nowhere in the rules.

Okay, I misunderstood what you were saying. I don't own the latest Dragon in which this "new rule" appeared. My read of the sidebar (on game night during downtime) was - x1 STR damage bonus for primary attacks in multiattack routines vs. x1.5 for single attacks in single attack routines, nothing new.

One of us may have misread it, but we both agree what it should be, namely, x1.5 STR damage bonus for natural weapons only applies in the case when the natural weapon can never be used in a multiattack routine.

...

To address the original poster's question, I think that the DD should get stat improvements both from the gradual change into a half-dragon over 10 levels and the abrupt Size change at 5th. These are distinct changes even though both give +8 bonus to STR (at least for the Medium sized). A sorceror gives up 6th, 7th, 8th and 9th level spells for the full benefit of +16 STR.

 

[SpikeyFreak]

Re: Re: Actually, nothing's changed. This is how it always worked.

To address the original poster's question, I think that the DD should get stat improvements both from the gradual change into a half-dragon over 10 levels and the abrupt Size change at 5th. These are distinct changes even though both give +8 bonus to STR (at least for the Medium sized). A sorceror gives up 6th, 7th, 8th and 9th level spells for the full benefit of +16 STR. [/B]

Why?

Nowhere in the rules does it say that a character's stats change if the character changes sizes.

Do you really thing it's balanced to have a PrC that gives a character a +16 to strength that stacks with EVERYTHING?

+8 to hit and +12 damage for a sorcerer class?

Ludicrous.

--Zealot Spikey

 

[CRGreathouse]

Re: Re: Re: Actually, nothing's changed. This is how it always worked.

Do you really thing it's balanced to have a PrC that gives a character a +16 to strength that stacks with EVERYTHING?

+8 to hit and +12 damage for a sorcerer class?

Ludicrous.

--Zealot Spikey

What, don't you let righeous might give +12 Str, +4 Con, and a +2 increase to natural armor?

--Sarcastic CRGreathouse

 

[SpikeyFreak]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Actually, nothing's changed. This is how it always worked.

--Embarased Spikey

PS Add persistant to that, along with divine favor and divine might. Who needs fighters?

 

[SpikeyFreak]

Yikes.

Sorc 1 / Cleric 14 / DD 5

Cast righteous might and you are huge. And apparently you get a total of +24 to strength (+12 to hit and +18 damage, not to mention +8 con, for 80 more HP). And you can make that persistant to have it for 24 hours.

Then divine might gives you a BAB of +20 and divine favor gives +4 on to hit and damage. Lets see, that makes +36 attack bonus with no eq, and +22 damage with no eq. Oh, I forgot that the get str to start with.

I feel a better "sage-ruling stupidity" smack down comming on.

--Tired Spikey