Enterprise 10-08-04

[Rackhir]

I was initially quite excited to see Manny Coto's name on things, since I really liked Odessey 5, but the obvious inaccuracies did dampen my enthusiasim for things somewhat. I can understand, why for plot purposes they are doing things like having the Nazi's having invaded the US, but without some sort of half way plausible explanation of how it was accomplished it. That just trips too many BS alarms.

I mean it took the US a good year plus, just to assemble the forces necessary for the normandy invasion and the US vastly out stripped Germany in terms of both population and production and Germany had it's best stuff tied down on the eastern front. Not to mention that we had a toe hold in England that was just 26 odd miles from the invasion point and it was still quite touch and go. Hell even in Russia, the Germans at least had rail links going up to the russian border. The thought of trying to sustain an invasion force across the north atlantic with no forward base would give any military nightmares.

 

[mojo1701]

Well, they had futuristic aliens helping them out, and remember how those Germans were telling the Voth that the Nazis had spread too far?

 

[Umbran]

As we consider the whole invasion the US thing, it is important to consider that the aliens may not have stepped in recently. If they've been there since before the start of the war, it is possible that the entire shape of the war is not as we recall it. That makes it darned difficult to judge the "what ifs".

 

[TDRandall]

How much did the aliens have to contribute? I don't really know, but it seems like if they simply "helped" them get their technology ahead of the Allies for the past few years it would help a lot. Messerschmidt jets might be enough to remove British air superiority. Fully functioning radar (wasn't it just early, untrustworthy tech at this time?) The enhancements to weaponry like the torpedoes mentioned before could also make the next generation V3 rockets much more accurate and devestating that England couldn't help but capitulate. It couldn't have been TOO far future, what with the bulky plasma weapons being offered to the Germans by the alien requesting the materials evidently for the "big project".

I haven't seen it mentioned here, but I had always considered the Temporal Cold War to be between two different factions from two different places and races (Suleban vs. Humanity). This episode made me realize that it was more likely two different factions from alternative futures but both were based from earth humanity. In the one we get the Federation, Suleban, and Xindi (albeit the last two became stooges of the other faction), while in the other we get a Nazi victory that leads to ... what? Total fascism over the entire galaxy? Perhaps the "aliens" are merely a few hundred years of breeding the proposed Aryan supermen?

I do wish they had brought more news and reports from the "outside world". I didn't really catch any of what "Churchill" (presumeably) said. It would have been nice to hear a bit more about the other leaders. We only know that the "president" pulled out of DC - do we know it was Roosevelt (or Truman)? Shoot - I don't actually remember seeing or hearing anything that let's us know that Hitler is still alive and leading, nor anything about the Japanese. (I wish you could pull down transcripts of a show after it had been broadcast - I'd pick through it because this is all only IIRC.)

Then again, this is a SciFi TV show - Star Trek we're talking about. Although they do their best to make things sound official, when has reality really gotten in the way of the story?

 

[John Crichton]

That ep did not suck. I liked the dude who played a gangster on the Sopranos as a gangster on Enterprise.

The Daniels subplot was cool. There's nothing to say he won't pop up again, tho.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

I haven't seen it mentioned here, but I had always considered the Temporal Cold War to be between two different factions from two different places and races (Suleban vs. Humanity). This episode made me realize that it was more likely two different factions from alternative futures but both were based from earth humanity. In the one we get the Federation, Suleban, and Xindi (albeit the last two became stooges of the other faction), while in the other we get a Nazi victory that leads to ... what? Total fascism over the entire galaxy? Perhaps the "aliens" are merely a few hundred years of breeding the proposed Aryan supermen?

Somehow I must think of the Mirror Universe - maybe the effects of a temporal cold war is what created the mirror universe with the "Nazi Federation"...

 

[VirgilCaine]

Spoiler

Essentially I think they're really not paying attention to military history here, and simply going for the emotional response Nazis patrolling New York would have on an American audience.

Spoiler

Yeah, like that nothinglike the way it is today, with heavily armed troops patrolling the streets, harassing the citizenry.

At any rate, the Remans MUST be telling the Nazis where they went wrong--maybe they replaced Hitler with someone better at military stuff, that would make it more believable for them to be able to win.

But still, invading the U.S. is something that would have to be avoided at all costs.
Theres really no place in that time period to do it. Nowadays, you might be able to get a foothold in New England, definitely NYC, but it's still not a sure thing.

I'll have to see about this on www.alternatehistory.com

 

[Particle_Man]

If the Remans started interfering around 1920, then a lot of tech. advances and stuff later, I could see an invasion of america by the 1940's. That's a lot of time to fool around.

 

[Viking Bastard]

I don't think those guys are Remans. Similar, sure, but the Nazis don't even have pointy ears.

 

[Tom Cashel]

If the Remans started interfering around 1920, then a lot of tech. advances and stuff later, I could see an invasion of america by the 1940's. That's a lot of time to fool around.

Not really. A lot of the historical reasons for Germany's militarization and subsequent invasions were based on the crushing depression suffered by that country during the Twenties. They were trying to pay war reparations and get their shattered economy running at the same time, and it just didn't work too well.

If the Time Aliens gave them a bunch of new technologies in 1920, WWII might have been prevented!

I got the sense that the aliens helped out the Germans only a little bit. I mean, when shown the film of a laser rifle blowing up a tank, German commander says something to the effect of, "All we ever see are films! When do we get some hardware?" And the alien gives his spiel about how they need the raw materials to make the proper power cells, blah blah. In actuality, the aliens are stringing the Nazis along so they can keep building their Temporal Conduit (which will no doubt be used to send the Enterprise home before it is destroyed, ending the TCW).