D&D (2024) Healer Feat

[Chaosmancer]

what is this druidcraft slander!?!

I once had a ring of useless spells, it gave the cantrips Bladeward, Friends, and Truestrike

It has nothing to make it stand up to its competitors. I ended up rewriting it to allow it to ripen fruit and protect 1 person from the effects of weather just so it wasn't so completely overshadowed by Prestidigitation and Thaumaturgy

 

[GMforPowergamers]

It has nothing to make it stand up to its competitors. I ended up rewriting it to allow it to ripen fruit and protect 1 person from the effects of weather just so it wasn't so completely overshadowed by Prestidigitation and Thaumaturgy

it is the weakest of the three... three of 4 most useful cantrips (I would put minor illusion up with them)

 

[Chaosmancer]

depending on your character: eldritch blast, shield, shillelagh.
It otherwise increases versality, not raw power.
I value versality high. So I like magic initiate.
Healer feat now allows you to patch up someone in mere seconds, even if you use all HD. Also sounds like increased versality. The power level has to be finetuned.

Well, there is half your problem right there. Shield isn't a cantrip, its a first level spell. Obviously it would be overpowered to allow that as a cantrip.

Eldritch Blast is very good, but without Hex and Agonizing blast it isn't overpowered IMO

Shillelagh is pretty good, but you need to combo it for it to really be worth being called overpowered. And even then, it isn't overpowered compared to anyone else using a melee weapon with the same combos.


I also value versatility, but feats have to allow you to do MORE than you otherwise would be capable of. The old version of healer allowed you to heal a target once per short rest at no cost to future healing. This new version gives you a weaker version of your future healing, to have it now. Which has uses, but this also needs to compete with getting spells. I could get Magic Initiate and have a 1/day 1d8+3 heal AND two cantrips, and that heal WON'T prevent me from taking a short rest and healing again later. Battle Medic does prevent that future healing. Even if at later levels it does so less, it is still a drain that doesn't need to happen. Giving 1 free heal won't break anything, and would allow you to feel more like a healer.

No. Never mentioned 3.X*
I see, you are probably in edition warring mode so everything has to come down to 3.X vs 4e?

Wow. Accusations of edition warring straight out of the gate. Wonderful.

No, actually I went back and re-read the post in question and you just have terrible choices in presentation.

You wrote: "I think, level 3 5e character would be better."
Which I saw as: "I think, level 3.5e character would be better."

So, a misreading because you put two numbers with different purposes next to each other, in a broken fragment of a sentence, not me being in an "edition warring mindset"

I said at level 3, you can heal 3 times per day for about 1/3 of their health.

Example: barbarian, con 14.

HP: 14 + 9 + 9 = 32
HD: d12(+2) x 3

Use of the healer feat is d12 + 2, average 8.5, with reroll a bit higher. So a bit more than 1/4 HP
I assumed con is included in the hit die, so I assumed 10.5 HP healed. Which is relative closw to 1/3 hp

I would not assume con gets added, since they worded it in such a way that it wouldn't be added.

But, let's look at some of the context here, right? You want to compare a level 3 character from 5e to a level 1 character from 4e, on the basis of this healing. So, this 3d12+6 gives us 25.5 hp which is 80% of their Max HP. And when they short rest they get... nothing. And when they long rest they get back 2 HD, leaving them weaker for the next day.

So, we are comparing this to a 4e character at level 1, right? So, a Barbarian at level one, with a 14 con would have... TEN healing surges. Each surge would give (for a character with 32 hp) 8 hp (same as your 1d12+2, except static and not an average) meaning that they could recover 80 hp over the course of the day if no one used a power which gave them a bonus to that healing.

So... no, yet again, this is not "close enough" Hit Dice are not like Healing surges. They work VERY differently under VERY different paradigms. So we should judge 5e stuff by how it works in 5e, not poorly equate it to things it really isn't anything like.

It is in the spirit of the warlord, as inspiring word uses the healing surge of the receipient.
Last time I checked, healing surges were also per day...

Sure, that level 1 Barbarian has 10 surges per day. And at the end of a long rest.. they regained 10 of them, not half of them.

Additionally the Warlord's Inspiring Word allows you to spend a healing surge AND HEAL AN EXTRA 1D6. So, if those surges were all healed via Inspiring word, at 1st level it wouldn't be 80 hp gained, but 10d6+80 or 115 hp. For a character with 32 hit points.

And the Warlord would eventually add +6d6 extra healing, per surge, by level 26. Making that even more hp. And it was a bonus action.


So, on one hand, you have an ability that would allow you to recover three times per day, for an average of 80% of your hitpoints, and leave you weakened for the next day. And on the other hand you have an ability that allows you to recover ten times per day, for an MINIMUM of 250% of your hp, a potential average of 360% of your hit points, and doesn't impact your performance the next day at all/

So, yet again. You are completely off base with your comparison. These two systems are NOTHING alike, because HD are far far far weaker than the healing surge system. By a lot.

 

[Chaosmancer]

When someone first mentioned adding the target's CON MOD to the healing, I thought it was a great idea. But after thinking about it, that would make it better then a Short Rest. As it is now, with just the healer's PB, it's almost as good as a Sort Rest, but not quite. That's how it should be, IMO. Taking a Short Rest should be ideal compared to using the healer feat, but sometimes circumstances don't allow for one. If the group is in the middle of a dungeon with monsters breathing down it's neck, sitting around for an hour to rest might not be feasible. But if a party member in that situation has the healer feat (whether a non-healer or a healing caster who's out of spellslots), a quick patch-up can save the day.

I disagree because of a few additional factors.

Healing Magic
Healing Potions

I don't want someone to take this feat, and their companions constantly telling them that they would rather use magical healing, or that they would love to be healed, but they'd be better off just waiting for a short rest.

This shouldn't be a feat for people to take as "Well, I have no better options" it should BE a better option for healing. This is the ONLY non-magical healing in the game other than resting. It should be BETTER than just sleeping off your wounds to get medical attention.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

Well, there is half your problem right there. Shield isn't a cantrip, its a first level spell. Obviously it would be overpowered to allow that as a cantrip.

I stopped right here.
You also get a 1st level spell.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

Eldritch Blast is very good, but without Hex and Agonizing blast it isn't overpowered IMO

Shillelagh is pretty good, but you need to combo it for it to really be worth being called overpowered. And even then, it isn't overpowered compared to anyone else using a melee weapon with the same combos.


I also value versatility, but feats have to allow you to do MORE than you otherwise would be capable of. The old version of healer allowed you to heal a target once per short rest at no cost to future healing. This new version gives you a weaker version of your future healing, to have it now. Which has uses, but this also needs to compete with getting spells. I could get Magic Initiate and have a 1/day 1d8+3 heal AND two cantrips, and that heal WON'T prevent me from taking a short rest and healing again later. Battle Medic does prevent that future healing. Even if at later levels it does so less, it is still a drain that doesn't need to happen. Giving 1 free heal won't break anything, and would allow you to feel more like a healer.



Wow. Accusations of edition warring straight out of the gate. Wonderful.

No, actually I went back and re-read the post in question and you just have terrible choices in presentation.

You wrote: "I think, level 3 5e character would be better."
Which I saw as: "I think, level 3.5e character would be better."

So, a misreading because you put two numbers with different purposes next to each other, in a broken fragment of a sentence, not me being in an "edition warring mindset"



I would not assume con gets added, since they worded it in such a way that it wouldn't be added.

But, let's look at some of the context here, right? You want to compare a level 3 character from 5e to a level 1 character from 4e, on the basis of this healing. So, this 3d12+6 gives us 25.5 hp which is 80% of their Max HP. And when they short rest they get... nothing. And when they long rest they get back 2 HD, leaving them weaker for the next day.

So, we are comparing this to a 4e character at level 1, right? So, a Barbarian at level one, with a 14 con would have... TEN healing surges. Each surge would give (for a character with 32 hp) 8 hp (same as your 1d12+2, except static and not an average) meaning that they could recover 80 hp over the course of the day if no one used a power which gave them a bonus to that healing.

So... no, yet again, this is not "close enough" Hit Dice are not like Healing surges. They work VERY differently under VERY different paradigms. So we should judge 5e stuff by how it works in 5e, not poorly equate it to things it really isn't anything like.



Sure, that level 1 Barbarian has 10 surges per day. And at the end of a long rest.. they regained 10 of them, not half of them.

Additionally the Warlord's Inspiring Word allows you to spend a healing surge AND HEAL AN EXTRA 1D6. So, if those surges were all healed via Inspiring word, at 1st level it wouldn't be 80 hp gained, but 10d6+80 or 115 hp. For a character with 32 hit points.

And the Warlord would eventually add +6d6 extra healing, per surge, by level 26. Making that even more hp. And it was a bonus action.


So, on one hand, you have an ability that would allow you to recover three times per day, for an average of 80% of your hitpoints, and leave you weakened for the next day. And on the other hand you have an ability that allows you to recover ten times per day, for an MINIMUM of 250% of your hp, a potential average of 360% of your hit points, and doesn't impact your performance the next day at all/

So, yet again. You are completely off base with your comparison. These two systems are NOTHING alike, because HD are far far far weaker than the healing surge system. By a lot.

Now I read the rest. Thanks for the calculations.
You are still comparing apples and oranges.
You compare healing surges that are all 4e characters get (with some bonuses) to hit dice which are one of many sources of healing.*
I am just assessing the feat and that at level 3 it becomes quite useful, because you can heal a bit more.
The only thing I conpared was that inspirational word uses ressources of the receipient, the new feat also does.
The old feat didn't.
All the rest you read into it is a not a claim I made here in this thread.

*I would not mind giving more hit dice to 1st level characters in 5e and also spend them for cure spells.
But right now, cure spells are extra, paladin healing is extra etc.

 

[Staffan]

If course HD and healing surges serve a slightly different purpose, but the healer feat is more similar to warlord healing than the old one: the receipient spends a surge and heals hp with a bonus. Not limited to once per rest.

That does not mean that HD are now healing surges...

The problem is that Hit Dice don't scale. In a 10th level party, someone using the D1D Healer feat on a fighter would heal for the mighty amount of 1d10+4 out of their approximately 95 hp (assuming Con 16). That's like 10%. The 5e version would instead be 1d8+14, which is at least close to 20%.

A 4e Warlord using a Word of Inspiration would heal more than 25% (because the healing surge is 25% as a baseline and you get to add one or more d6:es on top of that).

Based on the 8 years of complaints regarding no true Warlord representation in 5E even with the Healer feat as an option... it's not surprising WotC has decided to change up the mechanics to allow it to be useful for magical healers too.

When you throw a bone and it gets crapped on... there's not much reason to throw the bone again.

Or perhaps you should provide some proper food instead of a lousy bone. Here's an idea:

All characters start with 6 + Con bonus HD. Some classes get bonus HD.
Spending a hit die heals you for 25% of your max hp.
You can spend any number of HD on a short rest, or when something triggers one.

depending on your character: eldritch blast, shield, shillelagh.

Eldritch Blast isn't particularly strong in itself. It deals the same damage as Firebolt, but spread out over multiple attack rolls instead of just one.

It is in the spirit of the warlord, as inspiring word uses the healing surge of the receipient.
Last time I checked, healing surges were also per day...

But healing surges scale with the recipient. HD don't.

 

[Gorck]

*I would not mind giving more hit dice to 1st level characters in 5e and also spend them for cure spells.
But right now, cure spells are extra, paladin healing is extra etc.

I was thinking about this while reading about their decision to remove monster crits. If their main concern was monsters killing level 1 characters, why not just give level 1 characters more HP? Maybe borrow a little from 4e and have characters add their CON score rather than their CON modifier at 1st level, but add their CON modifier to their HD when gaining additional levels.

So a 1st level Fighter with a 16 CON (+3) would start with 26 HP instead of 13 HP, but still gain 1d10+3 at additional levels. Even a 1st level Wizard with a meager 10 CON (+0) would start with 16 HP instead of 6 HP.

But I guess that's an arguement for the other thread . . .

 

[UngeheuerLich]

I was thinking about this while reading about their decision to remove monster crits. If their main concern was monsters killing level 1 characters, why not just give level 1 characters more HP? Maybe borrow a little from 4e and have characters add their CON score rather than their CON modifier at 1st level, but add their CON modifier to their HD when gaining additional levels.

So a 1st level Fighter with a 16 CON (+3) would start with 26 HP instead of 13 HP, but still gain 1d10+3 at additional levels. Even a 1st level Wizard with a meager 10 CON (+0) would start with 16 HP instead of 6 HP.

But I guess that's an arguement for the other thread . . .

I'd at least give 1st level chars 2 hit dice instead of 1 full hit die.
Sidekicks already get that.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

The problem is that Hit Dice don't scale. In a 10th level party, someone using the D1D Healer feat on a fighter would heal for the mighty amount of 1d10+4 out of their approximately 95 hp (assuming Con 16). That's like 10%. The 5e version would instead be 1d8+14, which is at least close to 20%.

A 4e Warlord using a Word of Inspiration would heal more than 25% (because the healing surge is 25% as a baseline and you get to add one or more d6:es on top of that).


Or perhaps you should provide some proper food instead of a lousy bone. Here's an idea:

All characters start with 6 + Con bonus HD. Some classes get bonus HD.
Spending a hit die heals you for 25% of your max hp.
You can spend any number of HD on a short rest, or when something triggers one.


Eldritch Blast isn't particularly strong in itself. It deals the same damage as Firebolt, but spread out over multiple attack rolls instead of just one.

But healing surges scale with the recipient. HD don't.

What about: using an action a pc can spend up to 1\4 of their hit dice rounded up?