D&D (2024) How Will They Fix Warlock Spellcasting Issues?

CleverNickName

Limit Break Dancing
armor of agythis would also need to be moved to an invocation.

At-will THP would be a bit much, even if it cost 2 actions.
Yeah, the more I think about it, the less I like it.

The game assumes that only cantrips are 'spammable' in combat. Making higher-level spells function like cantrips is not something I want, need, or expect.

I'll stick to my current house rule. No issues so far.
 

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mellored

Legend
Yeah, the more I think about it, the less I like it.

The game assumes that only cantrips are 'spammable' in combat. Making higher-level spells function like cantrips is not something I want, need, or expect.
They are not functioning like cantrips in combat.

2 actions to cast is very expensive. And most warlock spells are concentration.

What you get is a lot of out of combat casting. They already get a lot at-will spells anyways with their invocations.
I'll stick to my current house rule. No issues so far.
That also works.
 


tetrasodium

Legend
Supporter
Epic
Not my favorite, but...

When you roll initiative, regain a spell slot.

...would also work.
Slots would need to stop progressing around level 2 or 3 slots. With invocations & EB that shouldn't be an issue
edit: and maybe not getting those L3 slots at 5 either
 
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mellored

Legend
Slots would need to stop progressing around level 2 or 3 slots. With invocations & EB that shouldn't be an issue
edit: and maybe not getting those L3 slots at 5 either
Not sure why.

With the supposed 2 short rest a day, they would get 4 or 6 extra slots.

If they get one with initiative and have 4-5 battles a day. That is 5 extra slots.

About the same.

Still not the biggest fan of "regain on initiative", but it's ok.
 

tetrasodium

Legend
Supporter
Epic
Not sure why.

With the supposed 2 short rest a day, they would get 4 or 6 extra slots.

If they get one with initiative and have 4-5 battles a day. That is 5 extra slots.

About the same.

Still not the biggest fan of "regain on initiative", but it's ok.
Here is the why.
Without MC complicating matters... the 2014 pact magic warlock has:
  • 1x 1st level slot at level 1
  • 2x 1st level slots at level2
    • those jump to 3rd 4th & 5th at PC level 5 7 & 9
  • They get a third 5th level slot at level 11

The relative value of an extra spell slot of that slot level initiative is rolled at those level breakpoints plus EB plus invocations plus pact boons every time is far more than those lower level slots regular casters have and the warlock still has level number of spells known that could be upcast. Moving the slot level jump to something like 7 9 & 11* means that the warlock could still dump a powerful spell every fight without dropping the wizard/sorcerer/cleric/druid's one big spell for the day every fight.

* Just pulled by shifting the jumps back a step or two without overloading low levels or trailing too far towards cantrip levels of efficacy... no deep meaning. EB & invocations are powerful on their own.
 


tetrasodium

Legend
Supporter
Epic
Good advice! But no, they definitely going to do something to give warlocks more spells outside of pact magic
Maybe... just not
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phb165
or agonizing repelling EB would need to take a big hit. Invocations & EB are powerful because of the way pact magic differs from regular slots. Also in the post immediately above yours I was talking about a reasonable progression of slots that could recover one every time initiative is rolled...
 

doctorbadwolf

Heretic of The Seventh Circle
After giving this some considerable thought (hat tip to my ADHD, for helping me hyperfocus), I've found a problem:

Counterspell.

I can already hear my players: "As a reaction, I counterspell....I use my action to recover my spell slot...as a reaction I counterspell...I use my reaction to recover my spell slot...as a reaction I counterspell...I use my action to recov--"

There are other spells that can be cast as bonus actions or reactions, which the player could then reset immediately afterward as an action (Misty Step, Hellish Rebuke, Hex, etc.) And all of them would be problematic to some degree. But I think that Counterspell is probably the worst among them. Nonstop counterspell is so much worse than casting Wall of Stone on every odd-numbered turn of initiative.
At-will Counterspell that costs an action means you’re only ever doing Counterspell. That isn’t a strong character. Your action is valuable.
armor of agythis would also need to be moved to an invocation.

At-will THP would be a bit much, even if it cost 2 actions.
Is it? At-will THP that costs an action wouldn’t break anything. Hell, it wouldn’t even get used that often, maybe 2 times per combat encounter on average. THP that costs your anction and can be recharged as an action on a subsequent turn would get used about as often, at worst. Almost certainly less often.
 

mellored

Legend
Is it? At-will THP that costs an action wouldn’t break anything. Hell, it wouldn’t even get used that often, maybe 2 times per combat encounter on average. THP that costs your anction and can be recharged as an action on a subsequent turn would get used about as often, at worst. Almost certainly less often.
I don't think many spells would be worth 2 actions in combat.

But compare it to false life, which also gives 5THP, had no damage, cost an invocation (though should scale). Rather than just a known spell.

Again. I like the idea of an action to recharge the slot. But some things need tweaked.

I.e. remove fiendish vigor, and make armor of agythis invocation. That gives 1 THP / damage per warlock level.
 

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