Immortals Handbook - ASCENSION

[Ltheb Silverfrond]

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I'll give my ideas.
#2:
Arts - on objects of art?
Charity - On the poor?
Entropy - Those who are near death?
Fertility - ???
Peace - On those who carry no weapons?
Science - On inventions or Inventors?

#3:
Destruction - Immune/Reflect Disintegration? (Limited, but other benefits are good)
Fear - Immune to Fear/Reflect fear effects? (A prestige class in heroes of horror does this)
Fertility - ???
Good - Immune/Reflect spells with good descriptor, or those cast by Neutral good casters?
Healing - Can't suffer incurable wounds (Single), Suffer half-damage from attacks that would cause incurable wounds. (Double)
Labor - This one is easy - Immune/Reflect effects that cause Fatigue, Exhaustion, or strength damage.
Revenge - Immune/Reflect retributive attacks (Counter-attacks or effects of a fireshield)?
Time - Immune/Reflect Ageing effects or effects that alter the flow of Time. (Like slow)

#4:
Arts - ???
Disease - Against diseased foes, or something.
Entropy - Foes that are suffering from a permanent affliction.
Knowledge - Against those whom you know a terrible secret about.
Labor - Fatigued/Exhausted foes?
Love - ???
Madness - Against insane foes?
Peace - Against foes without weapons?

#5:
Peace - Any monster, but monster cannot attack or use offensive abilities.
Science - Constructs built?
Thievery - ???

#6:
Charity - Ignore defenses granted by one of the foe's magic items/artifacts. (Single) or All (Double)
Darkness - Vs Concealment?
Evil - Vs Protection from evil spells?
Fertility - ???
Labor - Ignore vs Fatigue (single) or Exhaustion (Double)
Science - Ignore defences of one non-magical item? (Singe) or All (Double)?
Skill - Foes take penalty on opposed skill checks, like -10 (Single), or can't succeed (double)
Sky - Foes defences/damage reduction doesn't apply to falling damage?
Stoicism - Trump Damage Reduction?
Time - Trump aging immunity?

#8: With these, it could work kind of like a contact-fast healing effect: Like with Death - While standing on burial ground.

 

[dante58701]

excellent

 

[Pssthpok]

1. Okay Spell-like Abilities are straightforward (thanks for the help with the Labour portfolio guys).

No problem; I'm sure we're all glad to contribute.

2. (Divination) The base idea here is that a deity has either clairaudience (single port) or clairvoyance (double) from a certain source (e.g. fire, someone disease ridden).

Problem Portfolios: Arts, Charity, Entropy, Fertility, Peace, Science

Arts: Tough one.

Charity: Hmm...

Entropy: ?

Fertility: Voyeurism anyone?

Peace: ?

Science: ?

3. (Abjuration) Base idea is for immunity (single) and reflection (double).

Problem Portfolios: Destruction, Fear, Fertility, Good, Healing, Labour, Revenge, Time

Destruction: Immune/reflects disintegration-, destruction-, and inflict/harm-based* spells
*or cure/heal if undead.

Fear: Immune to fear effects; Reflects the fear DC. Is that too straight forward?

Good: Immune to/reflects unholy damage.

Healing: Immune to/reflects inflict and harm spells.

Labour: Immune to/reflects paralysis and hold spells. Gotta keep working!

Revenge: Immune to/reflects charms that would deter the entity from the course of revenge; i.e. convince the enchanter that they ought to help in the pursuit of revenge.

Time: Immune to/reflects temporal stasis-based spells, has Spell Stowaway (timestop) within divine aura.

4. (Competence) Base idea is for an Attack, Damage and AC bonus under certain conditions.

Problem Portfolios: Arts, Disease, Entropy, Knowledge, Labour, Love, Madness, Peace

Arts: When defending the arts/artists, or when attacking forces of entropy/destruction.

Disease: When... hmm...

Entropy: Opposite of Arts, above.

Knowledge: When pursuing knowledge, or when attacking forces of secrecy?

Labour: When defending the laity/working class.

Love: When defending or promoting lovers, or when attacking hate mongers (specifically those who prey on others 'weakened' or disarmed by love).

Madness: Make a small table. They roll each time they want to get the bonuses and only if it comes up on something close to what they're doing at the time?

Peace: Only when defending the weak or promoting peace.

5. (Summoning) Base ideas: +50%/+200% Hit Dice for acertain creature type, or + DvR x 2/+ DvR x4 Ability Score Bonus, or a few other bonuses.

Problem Portfolios: Peace, Science, Thievery.

Peace: When summoning Good entities.

Science: When summoning constructs.

Thievery: I like Sneaky Bastards. Keep it, I say!

6. (Trumping) Base idea: the deity has either a 50% chance (single) or 100% chance (double) of overcoming an immunity.

Problem Portfolios: Charity, Darkness, Evil, Fertility, Labour, Science, Skill, Sky, Stoicism, Time

Charity:

Darkness: Foils blindsense 50%/100% of the time.

Evil:

Fertility: Overcomes immunity to suggestions (i.e. the impregnation of ideas). This could help impregnation of another kind.

Labour: Overcomes immunity to fatigue 50% of the time, or 100% of the time with double port.

Science:

Skill: Overcomes 50%/100% of enemy's luck bonuses.

Sky: Overcomes immunity to cold, electricity, or fire (deity's choice, chosen once).

Stoicism:

Time:

7. (Evocation) Base idea is to use one of the [Effect] abilities.

All these abilities are finished, although I am not sure about the Community Portfolio having the Axiomatic [Effect] since the Community Portfolio only needs you to be non-chaotic.

Community could just give Divine [Effect] instead.

8. (Healing). Base ideas: Some element will heal the deity, or within a certain place they will heal or regenerate faster.

Problem Portfolios: Crafts, Death, Knowledge, Labour, Love, Elf, Science, Secrets, Skill, Stoicism, Strength, Thievery, Travel, Wealth, Wisdom

Crafts: Healed by divine damage (all artifice is creation, and creation is 'divine', right?).

Death: Healed in graveyards, or by negative energy.

Knowledge: Healed by karmic effects, or in institutions of learning.

Labour: ?

Love: Healed by divine damage (sappy, but hey...)

Elf: Healed in forests.

Science: ?

Skill: ?

Stoicism/Strength:

Thievery: Healed by stealing? Per GP value?

Travel: Healed per mile traveled?

Wealth: Healed by basking in trove. Think divine dragons.

Wisdom: Healed by still water (ponds and wells).


Hope some of that helps.

 

[WarDragon]

2. (Divination) The base idea here is that a deity has either clairaudience (single port) or clairvoyance (double) from a certain source (e.g. fire, someone disease ridden).

Problem Portfolios: Arts, Charity, Entropy, Fertility, Peace, Science

Objects of art/artists working, acts of charity, areas of decay, sexual acts/pregnant women, pacifists/acts of peace, people engaging in research.... I would also suggest that all gods get divinatory abilities around rites performed in their honor.

3. (Abjuration) Base idea is for immunity (single) and reflection (double).

Problem Portfolios: Destruction, Fear, Fertility, Good, Healing, Labour, Revenge, Time

Ltheb's ideas are good. For Fertility, I'd suggest effects that damage Con, or maybe energy drain. For healing... redirecting healing spells is logical, but being immune to them isn't.

4. (Competence) Base idea is for an Attack, Damage and AC bonus under certain conditions.

Problem Portfolios: Arts, Disease, Entropy, Knowledge, Labour, Love, Madness, Peace

Getting the bonus while acting in defense of your portfolio is always good. Art could get it while singing/dancing in battle, love could be while you have someone you love within your divine aura, or possibly if the foe is in love. For Peace... perhaps you get an attack/damage bonus only on attacks that deal nonlethal damage, and the AC in a round when you don't attack?

5. (Summoning) Base ideas: +50%/+200% Hit Dice for acertain creature type, or + DvR x 2/+ DvR x4 Ability Score Bonus, or a few other bonuses.

Problem Portfolios: Peace, Science, Thievery.

For Peace, any creatures get the bonus, but can't deal lethal damage Science, constructs. Thievery, all creatures summoned get a bonus to Hide and Move Silently, or arrive under invisibility (single) or greater invisibility (double).

6. (Trumping) Base idea: the deity has either a 50% chance (single) or 100% chance (double) of overcoming an immunity.

Problem Portfolios: Charity, Darkness, Evil, Fertility, Labour, Science, Skill, Sky, Stoicism, Time

Most of Ltheb's ideas are good here, I think. Maybe Science could ignore Insight bonuses to AC, Fertility could ignore mind-affecting immunity (crazed with lust?), Skill ignores immunity to Dex damage and drain, Stoicism ignores immunity to Con damage and drain, Time ignores temporal immunity.

7. (Evocation) Base idea is to use one of the [Effect] abilities.

All these abilities are finished, although I am not sure about the Community Portfolio having the Axiomatic [Effect] since the Community Portfolio only needs you to be non-chaotic.

I think Community would be better with the Iatric effect, myself. Even Evil gods of it would benefit by healing their minions.

8. (Healing). Base ideas: Some element will heal the deity, or within a certain place they will heal or regenerate faster.

Problem Portfolios: Crafts, Death, Knowledge, Labour, Love, Elf, Science, Secrets, Skill, Stoicism, Strength, Thievery, Travel, Wealth, Wisdom

Crafts gets you healing while wearing something you made yourself. Death, you're healed by negative energy, or when someone around you dies. The Ability-based Portfolios could turn an effect that would normally drain it into granting a bonus, maybe. Elf-portfolio gods are healed by Orc-bane damage. Travel, you get healing in any round you move up to your speed. Wealth, you get healing as long as you carry more than you're entitled to by level.

 

[WarDragon]

Yet another question; why are Invincibility and Sophism Transcendent abilities, while Elusion is a Cosmic? I honestly don't think avoiding damage that didn't require an attack roll is a sixfold increase in power.

And Nebulous seems more like a Divine Ability; only a 25% increase over five feats, and that being negated by True Seeing...

Finally, I just looked at Worm that Walks again. Lord of Maggots would not be underpowered as a Cosmic ability.

 

[mercucio]

Disclaimer: Not trying to be a pain, but the balance of these has been bothering me for a while.

Firstly, these templates don't increase ECL, so equipment is unaffected. So level adjustment won't be accurate.

I'm not sure how much I buy that argument. Multifaceted doesn't increase your ECL either yet the Vampire template grants a nearly identical benefit. Similar correlations can be found in each template to similar divine abilities. Or: If a divine ability is worth ~+1 CR, and base on your own CR/ECL system a divine ability grants benefits far above the divine ability (say half-celestial, where attributes are worth 1.8 ECL alone) why should it be discounted so greatly? I would imagine it would be better to break it into 2-3 divine abilities to properly represent the true power a deity gains.

Secondly, a lot of the abilities of the templates will be swallowed up by the divinity templates (i.e. damage reduction, spell resistance).

The SR/DR granted by said templates doesn't compose more than 1/3 to 1/2 the power of said templates, and templates with such benefits tend weigh in around +9 ECL at 20th level, leaving us with a large ECL adjustment even discounting those benefits.

Thirdly, I wanted to incorporate the templates and to do that I had to bend the rules slightly. Better to err slightly too powerful than slightly too weak.

While I can completely understand this, why not break it out into several DA's as I mentioned earlier? Immediate candidates Profane/Sacred Lord, where a quick and logical fix would be to add Spiritual Ancestry as prerequisite.

 

[paradox42]

2. (Divination) The base idea here is that a deity has either clairaudience (single port) or clairvoyance (double) from a certain source (e.g. fire, someone disease ridden).

Problem Portfolios: Arts, Charity, Entropy, Fertility, Peace, Science

This is really just Portfolio Sense like the WotC D&DG deities get, isn't it? I'd say just go with that- though the part about sensing the events potentially weeks in advance is probably silly and can be safely dropped. Arts, Charity, Fertility, Peace, and Science are straightforward with this notion I think. Entropy is more difficult, but you could change the ability to instead be something like finding any object's weak spots- so you get to partially ignore Hardness among other things. Perhaps Entropy deities also have increased ability to destroy artifacts.

3. (Abjuration) Base idea is for immunity (single) and reflection (double).

Problem Portfolios: Destruction, Fear, Fertility, Good, Healing, Labour, Revenge, Time

• Destruction: Disintegration damage perhaps? Some other form of raw damage that normal beings don't get immunity to?
• Fear: Why doesn't the paradigm work? Immune to fear effects with single, and Reflect it (and simultaneously overcome any immunity the source has) with double.
• Fertility: Go with a different Abjuration, I agree. Birth control is obvious; perhaps the single/double split relates to how easily the deity can use the power on others?
• Good: Allow the deity to use any immunities it has beyond the portfolio to help others. With double, turn any such immunities used this way into reflections.
• Healing: Since no sane being would want to give up healing when it has access to it, perhaps this ability for this Portfolio should instead allow the deity to render a target immune to healing- that is, withhold it from enemies. That may be too powerful though.
• Labour: Immunity to fatigue is an obvious idea here, though a little weak. Perhaps something could be added.
• Revenge: Single could get the ability to Reflect any sort of attack, X/day perhaps; double... well, this is tough, I agree.
• Time: No time-based effect like Haste or Slow can affect the deity unless it wants to be. And the deity isn't frozen like everything else when a nearby creature uses Time Stop or otherwise comes into interaction range with the deity during a Time Stop effect. This would work somewhat like the Spell Stowaway feat.

4. (Competence) Base idea is for an Attack, Damage and AC bonus under certain conditions.

Problem Portfolios: Arts, Disease, Entropy, Knowledge, Labour, Love, Madness, Peace

Arts, Knowledge, and Labour can get the bonus on skill checks insetad- the associated skills should be obvious. If there is concern for balance of power between these bonuses and combat bonuses granted to other Portfolios, then just increase the bonus for these, and/or do something to how quickly the deity can make checks- for example, maybe the deity of the Arts can just do its Craft (Sculpting) check or Perform (theatre) in a minute instead of a day or week or however long it would normally take. Peace could potentially be added to this by using Diplomacy, though admittedly d20 mechanics for Diplomacy are wonky as many people complain.

Disease could grant some forms of Disease [Effect], for example Strike, at this level.

Entropy could have the ability to penetrate Hardness of objects and one of the Sunder-helping feats or divine abilities.

Madness could get the bonuses while the deity is Confused or something like that, perhaps.

Love... I really have no idea here, unless the DM is using Book of Erotic Fantasy in which case there are several skill checks and such I could suggest.

5. (Summoning) Base ideas: +50%/+200% Hit Dice for acertain creature type, or + DvR x 2/+ DvR x4 Ability Score Bonus, or a few other bonuses.

Problem Portfolios: Peace, Science, Thievery.

I got nothin'. But others came up with good suggestions here.

6. (Trumping) Base idea: the deity has either a 50% chance (single) or 100% chance (double) of overcoming an immunity.

Problem Portfolios: Charity, Darkness, Evil, Fertility, Labour, Science, Skill, Sky, Stoicism, Time

• Charity: No immunity to overcome, so perhaps the deity attacks the target's wealth somehow instead.
• Darkness: The deity can remove Darkvision and other such abilities from a target- yes it's weak, but maybe Darkness's other abilities can make up for this. Alternately, or in conjunction, maybe the deity can protect allies with weaknesses to light, for example protecting a Vampire ally from sunlight.
• Evil: Maybe the deity can somehow gain Apostasy in limited circumstances, or give it to others- I dunno, I'm grasping at straws here too.
• Fertility: Remove any sort of infertility from any creature. Double might even be able to allow undead to have children, for an example of a suitably powerful effect.
• Labour: No immunity here, unless perhaps it lets the deity overcome immunity to Geas/Quest or something similar?
• Science: Give the character an ability to "study" its target to overcome any Immunity, like an Assassin's Death Attack.
• Skill: Pretty much inapplicable to combat, I agree. The trumping here could be something like letting the deity always win opposed checks.
• Sky: Electricity? Take away enemies' flight powers?
• Stoicism: Well, the point of this Portfolio is to take the suffering without showing it, so maybe the deity can instead steal its enemy's immunty(ies) for itself.
• Time: If you go with the "Time Immunity" abilities I suggested above, then the power at this level can overcome that. Otherwise... I got nothin'.

7. (Evocation) Base idea is to use one of the [Effect] abilities.

All these abilities are finished, although I am not sure about the Community Portfolio having the Axiomatic [Effect] since the Community Portfolio only needs you to be non-chaotic.

Nah, just use Divine [Effect] like Pssthpok suggested. Or give the Portfolio a unique effect that increases damage based on how many allies the deity currently has in its aura.

8. (Healing). Base ideas: Some element will heal the deity, or within a certain place they will heal or regenerate faster.

Problem Portfolios: Crafts, Death, Knowledge, Labour, Love, Elf, Science, Secrets, Skill, Stoicism, Strength, Thievery, Travel, Wealth, Wisdom

The skill-based Portfolios could get the healing whenever a unique skill check is made- or for Labour, whenever it keeps at the same extended task for a while. Love gets it while having sex ("making love" should logically give a deity of Love more energy, no?). Science and Secrets, the deity gets it whenever something is discovered. Thievery and Wealth could get it whenever the deity increases the size of its treasure hoard somehow. Really, most of these can work just like others do, it's just that you have to get away from thinking of the standard Regeneration or Fast Healing mechanic and go with more of a one-time boost each time it triggers. Like the Knowledge deity could get back a number of hit points equal to the DC of the Knowledge check just made, for example.

 

[dante58701]

Krusty has a valid argument...

Especially when one considers how many abilities are lost when a deity takes those miniscule templates. Those templates become essentially useless flavor text.

And vampires (not to mention undead in general) are a very very poor example when one considers the billions of undead killing abilities, feats, spells, ect. that essentially balance them out anyways.

I dont quite think you're looking at the bigger picture.

For starters...

Undead...as noted...are exceptionally vulnerable in the D&D universe. They are raped of their constitution score, which seriously makes them too weak.

Then they lose their ability to heal naturally.

Then they have a myriad of undead weaknesses.

And they have no form of bonus hit points.

Any fool with a disintegrate spell and a few levels of wizards could wipe one out real quick...or better yet...a bathtub of stockpiled holy water.

As for half-celestials and half-fiends...those template suck anyways. They are so drastically under powered and under defined that they serve as no more than mere flavor text.

Not to mention they acquire the vulnerabilities of their subtypes, a real pain when in D&D subtypes always screw you in the end.

Then there is the whole..."Well undead give you super powers." I cant even begin to imagine how many times I have heard people complain about that.

Sure...super powers...but also super weaknesses.

While the vampire template gives you a few feats, and could be misconstrued as being better than multifaceted...

...that just isnt accurate.

Multifaceted doesnt rip away your constitution score. Nor does it require the undeath divine ability, nor does it make you vulnerable to crosses, garlic, holy water, sunlight, staking, or require you to ask for permission to enter someones home, ect..

Sure you can use gaseous form, but a gust of wind spell will screw you.

Especially if someone uses a sprinkler with holy water at the same time.

Heck...all those templates can be detrimental in some way.

the only exception...half-dragon, which isnt nearly as bad as a vampire.

Breathweapon 1/day, 2/day, or even 3/day is nothing. You cant improve it without taking a buttload of feats.

The half breed templates are the worst.

they offer minimal spell resisistant (subsumed), damage reduction (subsumed), and spell-like abilities (typically subsumed). Only the wings, claws, and stat bonuses still apply and those arent anything to get excited about.

I could get any those templates for a deity without wasting divine slots. A miracle or wish as per SAVAGE SPECIES could even grant you full dragonhood, or full celestial or fiend status.

Or worse, it could acquire you any of those templates.

Then of course there are other methods of bypassing all of those templates.

To be honest...I love the idea of them being divine abilities, because then it tricks those playing gods into expending valuable divine ability slots on templates they could easily acquire via other methods.

In of itself this conceptualization of template = divine ability is a balancing factor.

Im amazed you havent noticed that.

 

[mercucio]

In of itself this conceptualization of template = divine ability is a balancing factor.

Im amazed you havent noticed that.

How adult of you. Wonderful manners you have.

 

[dante58701]

You must be touchy, because that wasn't an insult. In truth, it was a noting of the fact that ordinarily you are far more observant and worthy of respect.

Though, if you want to take it as an insult, feel free...just remember that it wasn't. Also...please try to refrain from personal "digs" such as "how adult of you" and so forth. It only belies your crankiness.

In fact, it would be best if you left your personal opinions at the front door. They aren't welcome and not appreciated.

In short, I don't insult you, so let's keep it clean.

And now...back to important things...like creating.