Immortals Handbook - ASCENSION

[Ltheb Silverfrond]

Hiya Ltheb dude!
You could probably make a case for stating that the Monk's AC bonus is an insight bonus.

Yea its a nebulous "1/5 Monk's level + Monks Wisdom modifier" bonus to AC. It would make sense as an Insight bonus, but it isn't listed as such. I think it was written that way so that people wouldn't get confused over what kind of bonus is what, so they left it untyped. I don't think the system was written with the intent that a PC would ever get that many kinds of bonuses.

Heck, thats one of the reasons a Monk's Belt is so good: Wisdom Mod + 1 as a bonus to AC! For 13K gold, thats a steal at 20th+ level!

(I would note someone once posted on the wizards board about how a Monks belt doesn't give you your wisdom bonus to AC, just +1. I checked. It says as the monk's AC Bonus, which is the class feature of the monk that allows the wisdom to AC. So unless the SRD needs erratta-ing, The belt allows the wisdom bonus.)

Perhaps one should include the monk bonus as Insight as a house rule of sorts; I may since it makes taking a Monk's belt a no-brainer otherwise. (or just ban the monk's belt. Or both)

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hey guys!

True, but I know of at least one DM (Selah, at Dicefreaks) who rules it that way.

It seems to make more sense being a named bonus.

Something that occurred to me, and I want to be sure of it one way or the other; the extra Strength from Legendary Strength does give additional VSCs, but that from Total or Infinite Strength does not, right?

You would gain VSCs from Legendary Strength and Total Strength, but I don't see any point working out for Infinite Strength. You deal Infinite Damage. End of.

 

[Fieari]

Infinite VSCs would mean infinite damage, infinite constitution, infinite AC (from nat armor) but AC reduced to 10 unless you have infinite dexterity. Seems a bit much to me, but perhaps the dex reduced to 10 thing might be enough of a disincentive. Maybe.

 

[WarDragon]

Infinite VSCs would mean infinite damage, infinite constitution, infinite AC (from nat armor) but AC reduced to 10 unless you have infinite dexterity. Seems a bit much to me, but perhaps the dex reduced to 10 thing might be enough of a disincentive. Maybe.

Indeed, which is why I assumed not. The Total one could be tricky to handle on the fly, but that applies to a lot of U_K's work.

 

[CRGreathouse]

I think he is right in what he says. There is a clear distinction between the majority of literary heroes and super-heroes - in terms of power. Also, literary heroes typically evolve, whereas super-heroes are generally begin their careers with their powers which usually don't grow any further over time.

I suppose its a Class Level vs. Template thing. Which neatly parallels how I would interpret the difference between mortals (even epic mortals) and immortals.

That's about how I feel.

Where I would disagree with Gary is in applying stats to these literary heroes.

From swopping emails with Gary a few years ago I know that the version of Gord the Rogue who was on the verge of defeating Tharizdun was considered only 30th-level or thereabouts.

Now Tharizdun was capable of punking out even Greater Gods. So you have a situation whereby a 30th-level hero is capable of defeating a greater god or better. In a sense this parallels Moorcock's Elric and Corum I suppose.

I wouldn't get too concerned about this. You and Gary both feel that things should be playable and that mortals and immortals should be able to interact. He prefers systems that don't go as high in level as the ones you prefer, and that's really a superficial difference when you get down to it. You agree where it matters.

I'd remove it completely. Circumstance bonuses should, dare I say it, rely on your circumstances.

For what little it's worth, I agree that the circumstance one should be dropped and insight should be moved to Int. It's so easy to do,though, I don't care what U_K does.

 

[WarDragon]

What can we expect from the update on Tuesday?

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hey guys!

I just had the most frightening 36 hours. On friday I somehow got infected by a computer virus and it was an absolute monster! In part, my fault as the virus initially disguised itself as an anti-virus, a trap I clumsily fell into.

Fortunately for me one of my best mates is a computer troubleshooter and it took him six hours yesterday and four different state of the art anti-virus programs to shift it (the virus was not only self-replicating but also continually spawned new viruses). Even then it was only his foresight of already having two operating systems on my machine that secured the victory.

While I have everything important backed up on dvd and on seperate hard drives it looked at one stage like I was going to have to wipe everything (which, needless to say would have set me back a few weeks). But luckily he was able to save my bacon.

So - how was your Friday and Saturday!

Normal service will be resumed momentarily.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hiya mate!

Infinite VSCs would mean infinite damage, infinite constitution, infinite AC (from nat armor) but AC reduced to 10 unless you have infinite dexterity. Seems a bit much to me, but perhaps the dex reduced to 10 thing might be enough of a disincentive. Maybe.

I see your point. The infinite ability scores would seemingly need to be supernatural in origin.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hi WarDragon mate!

Indeed, which is why I assumed not. The Total one could be tricky to handle on the fly, but that applies to a lot of U_K's work.

I try to make things as simple as possible, but diversity inexorably means complexity to a certain degree.

What can we expect from the update on Tuesday?

Well, hopefully Chapter 3 will resemble something close to the finished version, I also hope to have Surtur finished - since I want to use him as a preview on the website.

I could make the excuse that the computer virus has set me back a bit, however, Friday/Saturday is my most unproductive time of the week, generally speaking. So I doubt I have lost that much time - maybe only 8 hours work.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hiya mate!

I wouldn't get too concerned about this. You and Gary both feel that things should be playable and that mortals and immortals should be able to interact. He prefers systems that don't go as high in level as the ones you prefer, and that's really a superficial difference when you get down to it. You agree where it matters.

I suppose - although I'd have loved to have seen his 1st Ed. stats for Gord and Tharizdun - circa Dance of Demons.

We had 1st Ed. stats for Tharizdun and he had 10,000 hp, did d1000 damage (2 attacks - in monstrous form) and had AC -30 (IIRC).

For what little it's worth, I agree that the circumstance one should be dropped and insight should be moved to Int. It's so easy to do,though, I don't care what U_K does.

Well I don't see the change as worth the effort at this stage - if I get maybe ten powers I want to change I will consider it. But for just one power its too much work.