Immortals Handbook - ASCENSION

[Upper_Krust]

Hiya mate!

You really think you need to tell ME that?

Never read the full version myself, so I can't help you. If all else fails.... make 'em up?

Exactly...but magic crossbows - nothing springs to mind as a suitable name.

Just giving it out for free, then, when everyone else has to pay a feat for it?

As opposed to giving out size categories for free...

One for Enlightenment, two as weapons?

Its the same weapon - it just splits into three (like triple throw - but as a melee weapon).

Well, then almost every immortal is going to be slaughtered easily. AC is one of those things that needs constant boosting by multiple magical items in order to stay relevant.

Does Dagda slaughter himself* easily in a fight?

*by that I mean an exact duplicate.

Ok. I assumed following the myths was the reason for so many "weird" builds, that don't' really synergize at all.

Elaborate?

Why not just use the bonus divine abilities in place of artifacts, as you suggest in Chapter 2? That would keep it simple, and probably take care of his AC problem, as well (adding Wis and Cha to it again, and so forth). I did it with a human-based immortal of mine, who eschews magic items for personality reasons, and it worked out nicely.

Its a dangerous precedent.

Also Algol goes from 32 divine abilities to 160 divine abilities.

 

[Ltheb Silverfrond]

...

Surtur
Sir toor

Elder One (Divine Rank 24) of fire and destruction

Titanic Outsider (elemental, evil, extraplanar, fire, lawful)
etc...

Perhaps listing the divine bonus last in the Rank entry, since by your system it could be variable.
Ex:
Elder One of Fire and Destruction (Divine Rank 24)

Or if you threw a few portfolio templates on a creature, such as an (Advanced) Bodak, it could look like this:
Ex:
Killamabob
Demi-Deity of Darkness, Greater God of Death (Divine Rank X)
Medium Undead (Long string of subtypes)
Etc.
As for AC, there are about 20 or so possible bonuses (I used to have a list for min/max purposes ) but do you think the Character sheet needs 12 or so boxes trailing across the top?
Though if you have room to put boxes for individual bonuses it could be nice, expecially if you put little symbols underneath to note if they apply to touch or flat-footed conditions, Like an X for touch attacks, and a Square for flat-footed.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hello again mate!

I really like Algol - the notion that a particular star is actually the divine aura of an insane God... it really works for me.

Glad you like it.

Could you say the same thing about other stars and planets, I wonder? It would be really neat if you could balance it (making the divine aura an extremely heavy component of the manifestation's CR) so that a solar would be an aspect of a sun, and a planetar would be the aspect of a planet. The aspect of the aura-less body, that is.

Dunno if it is feasible, but it would be neat.

I think it works on a cosmic scale, which is always how the occult text describes these things (he was as tall as the world, etc.)

I like the idea of manipulating matter/energy on such scales.

Matter would be especially cool. You could have planet sized entities without resorting to 50 billion hit dice. Attacking the surface would be irrelevant, you would have to get to its heart/brain.

 

[Cheiromancer]

The question is "Should Fighters have nothing for themselves?"

That's a good question! I started question over in Rules: What feats are just for fighters? I put it in rules since I am not sure if, besides Weapon Specialization, what other fighter-only feats exist. If there are any.

Thanks for the response- I hope I can persuade you to change the prereqs- Sepulchrave has a DevCrit Barbarian build (involving a half-fiend troll as a base) and I'm trying to get him to adopt your replacement feat. DevCrit seems to be a little bit broken. So is Terrifying Rage; you can get the Intimidate check awfully high, and it isn't a mind-affecting ability so mind blank doesn't help. But Sepulchrave thinks a feat modifying crits should have Improved Critical as a prerequisite, and thinks it should be open to high level Barbarians, not just fighters. And finesse fighters (that's why he doesn't like the ELH version).

Did you get a new mouse yet?

 

[WarDragon]

Hiya mate!
Exactly...but magic crossbows - nothing springs to mind as a suitable name.

Doombolt? Deathwind?

As opposed to giving out size categories for free...

Touché.

Its the same weapon - it just splits into three (like triple throw - but as a melee weapon).

Uh... find a way to give her Soniferous, so you can squeeze in both? Drop another artifact?

Does Dagda slaughter himself* easily in a fight?

*by that I mean an exact duplicate.

Haven't checked, but possibly.

Elaborate?

Well, like Paladin/Bard, or Cleric/Druid; they don't really get as much benefit from those combinations as they would from staying in one class all the way, or even taking certain others.

Its a dangerous precedent.

Also Algol goes from 32 divine abilities to 160 divine abilities.

I'm not sure I understand the reluctance; doesn't your system have the basic assumption that the 128 abilities would be exactly balanced against the artifacts he doesn't have?

 

[Kalitharus]

*...waiting for Surtur to be posted on the website...*

 

[Ltheb Silverfrond]

...
I'm not sure I understand the reluctance; doesn't your system have the basic assumption that the 128 abilities would be exactly balanced against the artifacts he doesn't have?

I am sure they are, but when dealing with really big quantities like that, it gets tricky. I am sure if you had a Prophet, who didn't have any real artifacts or magical gear of any real value, you could give them an extra divine ability or two and it wouldn't hurt. But with ~160 slots, thats quite a bit of power.

On average, the slots equal the artifacts. Just as you could choose poor (useless) artifacts, you could choose poor abilities. The opposite is true as well. The problem is with that many powers, its hard to choose a set of powers that won't make Algol be able to Devour the Universe,* since he would almost have as many powers as a Time Lord. He would either have an all-encompassing arsenal of powers and defences to match every occasion, or a few excessively strong powers that eclipse the deities of even higher status.

What would I give him? With 160 divine slots, I'd drop some of his current powers to make room for 4 of the power that grants a changeable Cosmic power, and keep his aura to about the same. Need to kill something? Hit 'em with a Gravitic Touch, then blast em with an Atomic Storm.

Power corrupts, and absolute power is actually quite nice really.

* - Not that I wouldn't want to see Algol consume entire galaxies, but c'mon. It's called the Immortal's Handbook, not the "PunPun-with-Tentacles Handbook".

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hi Ltheb mate!

Perhaps listing the divine bonus last in the Rank entry, since by your system it could be variable.
Ex:
Elder One of Fire and Destruction (Divine Rank 24)

Okay.

Or if you threw a few portfolio templates on a creature, such as an (Advanced) Bodak, it could look like this:
Ex:
Killamabob
Demi-Deity of Darkness, Greater God of Death (Divine Rank X)
Medium Undead (Long string of subtypes)
Etc.

Interesting that you split the portfolio power.

As for AC, there are about 20 or so possible bonuses (I used to have a list for min/max purposes ) but do you think the Character sheet needs 12 or so boxes trailing across the top?

20 does seem a bit too much.

Though if you have room to put boxes for individual bonuses it could be nice, expecially if you put little symbols underneath to note if they apply to touch or flat-footed conditions, Like an X for touch attacks, and a Square for flat-footed.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hey dude!

That's a good question! I started question over in Rules: What feats are just for fighters? I put it in rules since I am not sure if, besides Weapon Specialization, what other fighter-only feats exist. If there are any.

I might change it.

Thanks for the response- I hope I can persuade you to change the prereqs- Sepulchrave has a DevCrit Barbarian build (involving a half-fiend troll as a base) and I'm trying to get him to adopt your replacement feat. DevCrit seems to be a little bit broken. So is Terrifying Rage; you can get the Intimidate check awfully high, and it isn't a mind-affecting ability so mind blank doesn't help. But Sepulchrave thinks a feat modifying crits should have Improved Critical as a prerequisite, and thinks it should be open to high level Barbarians, not just fighters. And finesse fighters (that's why he doesn't like the ELH version).

Perhaps I was too hasty trying to make something unique for Fighters. I have my Weapon Specialization chain after all.

Did you get a new mouse yet?

Yes! I got it last night - one of those optical jobbers, so its like trying to tame a Quickling!

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hi WarDragon dude!

Doombolt? Deathwind?

Remember also he is Lawful Good, should he trade in Death and Doom?

Touché.

Uh... find a way to give her Soniferous, so you can squeeze in both? Drop another artifact?

I don't know about that.

Haven't checked, but possibly.

Giving it a brief glance I don't see him doing more than a 6-700/round.

Well, like Paladin/Bard, or Cleric/Druid; they don't really get as much benefit from those combinations as they would from staying in one class all the way, or even taking certain others.

Ah - gotcha. True, multiclassing does tend to weaken.

I'm not sure I understand the reluctance; doesn't your system have the basic assumption that the 128 abilities would be exactly balanced against the artifacts he doesn't have?

It just seems really dangerous because with 4 artfacts you have four focal points, now Algol is getting 128. It might work if I give him four Transcendental powers instead. Its less a balance issue and more a complexity issue.