D&D General Just sweeping dirty dishes under the rug: D&D, Sexism, and the '70s

[Gradine]

I appreciated you post and your willingness to change but. . .

While I am not gonna be as jerky about it as some other posters, I am gonna suggest reconsidering your use of "female" in that way. I get that you were talking about mixed ages, but 1. "women and girls" works fine, and 2. "female" is an adjective, and when used as a noun to refer to people who can be identified (as opposed to a police report description, "tall white female dressed in a light blue sweater carrying a knife") it not only comes off as detached and clinical, it serves to reduce a person to biological sex and also potentially exclude non-binary folks.

Just something to consider. There are definitely places that go into more depth about it than I have (or can) here, if you do a little digging around.

NGL, when I see "female" used as a noun like that, one thing immediately springs to mind:

 

[Snarf Zagyg]

I appreciated you post and your willingness to change but. . .

While I am not gonna be as jerky about it as some other posters, I am gonna suggest reconsidering your use of "female" in that way. I get that you were talking about mixed ages, but 1. "women and girls" works fine, and 2. "female" is an adjective, and when used as a noun to refer to people who can be identified (as opposed to a police report description, "tall white female dressed in a light blue sweater carrying a knife") it not only comes off as detached and clinical, it serves to reduce a person to biological sex and also potentially exclude non-binary folks.

Just something to consider. There are definitely places that go into more depth about it than I have (or can) here, if you do a little digging around.

Well said. No notes.

I am going to add the following, however. Look, I get how tempting it can be to dunk on someone else. But that rush of endorphins doesn't do anything positive- for you, for them, for anyone. First rule of Snarf- unless it's a bard, try not to take the easy shot (if it's a bard, take the kill shot). Be the better person (whatever the issue might be) if you can. I get that there are times or issues that you can't always do that, but try.

Also, we've all experienced bad-faith arguments, trolls of all varieties, and people that just try to anger our blood all over the internet. But this is a pretty good community, and I think it helps to leave those experiences at the door and try our best to assume good faith and engagement on the part of all people here .... unless and until they clearly and unequivocally show us who they are... in which case, ignore them until they inevitably get banned. The key, though, is we have to try and leave those other experiences with other people on other places (and social media) at the door, and assume everyone at Morrus's cocktail party is just like us- cool and awesome and decidedly not a jerk.

Finally, we should try and extend the same tolerance to others for misstatements or misunderstandings or not knowing the proper current word choices that we would want extended to ourselves. Remember that there is a difference between people who weaponize words on purpose, and people who simply don't understand or aren't hip to all the current usages. Some people are terminally online, and others still might not have gotten the memo that "oriental" isn't a great word to use ... especially regarding people!!! I know, hard to believe, but it is possible!

So if you see someone saying something that seems a little off, try your best to follow el-remmen's example! Engage and explain. Be kind. We often find out that people don't know or understand why some things aren't ... quite right ... in certain contexts. And if they did know, and it was a deliberate choice, well ... we find out quickly.

I think part of this is from personal experience. I know that as I am no longer fully of the "with it" generation, I don't always know if some words are preferred, or fallen out of favor. For example, it wasn't very long ago that the "r" word was super common in a certain area (as in "That is wicked 'r word'"). It was so common that the phrasing was used on SNL regularly, and I had adopted it because of where I lived at the time without a thought (much like Madonna adopted a British accent). Of course ... now? Not so much. And I still remember making what I thought was an innocuous and common regionalism some years back and a younger friend and co-worker told me about the shift. For which I am so grateful. Or using proper pronouns- I am vigilant about using a person's preferred pronouns because that is the respectful and correct thing to do, but I also have so many years of having "them" is not correct beaten into my brain that I occasionally slip despite my best efforts... but that's a me thing, and I improve through use! Anyway, we all mess up, I do, you do, they do, and it's good to try and point it out, and if you are the recipient of someone pointing it out, listen without defensiveness.


Woah. That was my #nonotes reply. I really need to get another hobby.

 

[el-remmen]

No notes.

Notes.

 

[Hussar]

I too am very far from “with it”. I can’t even imagine what an “r” word is.

 

[Gradine]

I too am very far from “with it”. I can’t even imagine what an “r” word is.

The word "mentally" can sometimes precede it, if that helps.

I've noted that it's actually making something of a comeback in some online spaces for reasons I can't fathom and which is deeply unfortunate, but it is still incredible awful and I wish people would stop.

 

[Mecheon]

NGL, when I see "female" used as a noun like that, one thing immediately springs to mind:

Its certainly one, though I've always used a certain other incredibly dumb one due to the Transformers afflicted brain of mine

 

[Umbran]

I too am very far from “with it”. I can’t even imagine what an “r” word is.

It is a slur for people with cognitive disabilities.

 

[Umbran]

...it not only comes off as detached and clinical, it serves to reduce a person to biological sex ...

I will also add that use of "female" as a noun is a pattern seen in certain communities of men who denigrate women, specifically because of that depersonalizing reduction to biological sex.

Which is mostly advice that if you don't wanna sound like those chuckeleads, avoid that use when you can.

 

[haakon1]

It is a slur for people with cognitive disabilities.

Different countries use different formal terms for this.

In the US, “r” was the formal, respectful, preferred, and correct term for decades. E.g, ARC, a major organization helping people with this disability, had “R” meaning what you think it means. But it was nevertheless used as an insult, so things eventually changed and the nice word became unnice.

There’s a weird process where the formal term becomes delegitimized. It happens with ethnicities too. Sometimes old terms come back around too.

I’m not even sure what the preferred US term for “r” is now. I use “MR”, because a relative who’s married to a special educator uses it. I would guess that’s a medical/special ed term, but someone also thinks it’s wrong because they prefer some newer neologism.

I think that linguistic pattern is also about establishing authority, in groups, and boundaries. Ever changing cant makes it easy to exclude and demean others who didn’t get the memo of the term change.

 

[Ancalagon]

How does bringing up 50 year old problems that have been resolved 25 years ago help?

See that's the thing - 25 years ago, we made a big show of fixing things and then... we fixed about 20, 30% of it. It's better sure, but oh boy is there a ways to go!

I too for a while bought into the idea that the problem had been solved. But the older I get, the more sexism I see - not because there is more of it, but because I understand better.