Knights of the Virgin

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Most RW believers in chastity praise women who have many children so there is no conflict.
This is a gross misinterpretation of...well...every faith I can think of that values chastity.

Again, in most faiths, chastity means that sexual intercourse is limited to sanctified relationships such as marriages. How can the relationship be sacred when one party is forced into it?

The concept of being fruitful and multiplying is concept unrelated to chastity- having kids means more followers in the faith, and even the unchaste faiths want that. Only the Shakers demand all their followers be celibate, AFAIK.
Edit: Gods who don't walk the earth could also be interepreted as non-existent gods.

Then from where do divine-themed classes draw their powers? Are thee no Clerics, Favored Souls and Paladins?

If there are, and they have all of their class abilities, the question is begged: if all the evil forces have their divinely themed powers, where is the counterforce?

Or are even the divine beings granting spells and powers just as misogynistic as humanity?
 

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They are going to be worshipping a virgin as their deity. (Similar to the Virgin Mary)

I'm not seeing any similarity.

Edit: Not to mention they're anti-sex.

If they were anti-sex, they'd have a structure more like Shakers (except they would be loathsome). Shakers are so devout in their beliefs that ALL of those in the faith are celibate. They maintain their numbers strictly through conversion of adults.

An anti-sex organization would find the concept of conscripted babymakers to be anathema.
 

Clerics exist, but gods grant spells to clerics even if they do not follow the alignment of their god.

In this game clerics can be evil and still worship a good deity and receive their spells.

Edit: They are anti-sex because they believe that sex is evil and that a person should only have sex for reproductive purposes and not for fun.

Edit: I have not yet decided where the PCs will start. Although, given that in the areas controlled by the Knights of the Virgin they are likely to be drafted, they will probably be starting in the areas controlled by the Knights of the Scarlet Woman.
 
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They are going to be worshipping a virgin as their deity. (Similar to the Virgin Mary)

Okay.


Edit: Not to mention they're anti-sex.

Really? "Conscripting" women as breeders with no indication that there are any kind of recognized unions.

If they were anti-sex then they would be kidnapping existing children to turn into soldiers rather than making more of them.

So the order worships a virgin being then proceeds to serve this being by populating the world with soldiers born to rape victims?

..........and this virgin deity is fine with that? :erm:
 

Hunter99
Edit: Gods who don't walk the earth could also be interepreted as non-existent gods.

Hunter99
Clerics exist, but gods grant spells to clerics even if they do not follow the alignment of their god.

Make up your mind- do they exist or don't they?
In this game clerics can be evil and still worship a good deity and receive their spells.

Sooo, you can worship a god and receive his or her blessings, even though you may be taking actions that are expressly against the god's goals? That's F-ed up on a very deep theological level.

Edit: They are anti-sex because they believe that sex is evil and that a person should only have sex for reproductive purposes and not for fun.

Well, that's not really anti-sex. That's just anti-hedonism.
 
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Religious conservatives in the America believe in promoting family values and having lots of children and they are anti-sex so the apparent conflict between being anti-sex and pro-family (at least allegedly pro-family) doesn't exist.
 

Clerics exist, but gods grant spells to clerics even if they do not follow the alignment of their god.

In this game clerics can be evil and still worship a good deity and receive their spells.

Do you plan on telling cleric PCs not to bother roleplaying or having beliefs for thier characters because it simply doesn't matter?
 

Religious conservatives in the America believe in promoting family values and having lots of children and they are anti-sex so the apparent conflict between being anti-sex and pro-family (at least allegedly pro-family) doesn't exist.

Again, that's not anti-sex. That is anti-sex pushes of a concecrated relationship.. Biiiiig difference.

It was a religious conservative who first told me of the existence of the Kama Sutra...and how it helped keep their (then) 30 year marriage fresh.
 

Of course they can RP and have beliefs.

This doesn't mean that there will not be clerics who are corrupt.

The purpose of having no alignment restrictions for clerics is to make the campaign more realistic.
 

First off, if the campaign you're considering making is supposed to be Player Characters (PC's) being put into a world of two extremes you aren't taking it far enough.

If it's a Thought Experiment:
The Order of the Scarlet Woman will have to allow total homosexuality and use the charm spells on the men as well should they not be interested in sex. They would also be unable to leave.
And since you will have high ranking women in the order they will have to also kidnap men they consider handsome and the order will have to assist. And not merely assist, wholeheartedly agree with her actions.

The Order of the Virgin will have to force men to marry as well since it is realistic to assume there will be those who do not wish to. And not just because they are gay, a player, or dislike sex.
It is also reasonable to assume that women will have discovered ways of manipulating their environment to force certain men to be with certain women, so being beautiful/handsome in your world would have a number of automatic dangers.

Sex and Gender Spells.
Then of course there are the polymorph/curse spells made permanent which would turn wo/men into wo/men and expand the potential targets for either side.
This is more likely to be done by the order of the scarlet woman but it's use by the order of the virgin is almost certainly done as well.

Then again, if you're going to accept the effect of the polymorph/curse spells then why not expand it to hermaphrodites? (Both at once.)
This would probably be limited to the order of the scarlet woman.

If this is not merely a campaign based upon the characters examining the two extremes and is instead based upon your own, personal prejudices...

I'd say you aren't thinking far enough into the future.

Women are automatically physically weaker than men?
A few dozen decades of breeding programs would switch that around.
Especially if the program focus was also on breeding men who'd be physically weaker.

Granted, this ignores the advantages equipment can have in making personal strength irrelevant.
A man a woman both have machine guns and unlimited ammo. Who wins?
But let's make it clearer.
A woman and a man both have tanks with unlimited fuel and ammo. Who wins?
For extra fun lets play with genetic engineering. After all that's the realm of intelligence not strength.
You both have access to all the body altering and enhancement serums you wish. Which one will win?

While you haven't said it explicitly your order of the virgin sees women as the baby makers?
It's only a matter of time before artificial wombs are created and used with artificial insemination so women will be able to avoid the unpleasant aspects of pregnancy. Granted, that will cause them to not experience the pleasures associated with pregnancy and might cause unexpected social problems, but we won't know how bad or even if they will occur until it happens.

And if artificial wombs are created it will only be a short time afterward that implantation of those wombs into men will be proposed for those interested in experiencing pregnancy for themselves.
Granted, this is a near future thing for ourselves and not a concern for those of the medieval age.

Unless you take into account Spells and Artificers...

Outside of futuristic considerations:
A woman wouldn't be able to crush both of these orders on their own through brute force?
Realistically? Probably not, but by the same token a single person couldn't defend either of these orders by themselves through brute force so it's irrelevant.

Considering the stability or likelihood of either Order?
The Order of the Scarlet Woman looks like it has a limited lifespan.
While the Order of the Virgin would be at risk of losing half of it's population potential application to diplomatic, economic, scientific, philosophic, etc issues the Order of the Scarlet Woman would be allowing women who had to hide their personal opinions on kidnapping, forced sexual activities, and most importantly forced application of charm spells in positions of high authority.
Unless high ranking members, especially high ranking female members were to automatically be placed under charm spells the order would quickly tame itself, if not tear itself apart entirely.

Even if high ranking members were automatically put under charm spells it would only slow the orders rate of collapse.
Lower ranking members who hid their personal opinions would be looking for ways out of the order and if they found one would take it. Probably pulling other members along with them.

If all members of the order have charm spells placed upon them the problem still isn't halted because if the orders use of mentally affecting charm spells is public knowledge (And it would become public knowledge via the criminal underground.) then the public would consider joining or being dragged to the orders headquarters tantamount to "personality death."

On the Battlefield.
This is without the natural advantage opposing forces would have against members of the order of the scarlet woman when using dispel or greater dispel against the orders troops.
Someone who is suddenly free of the compulsion to agree with the orders dogma is going to less likely to be effective in combat and much more likely to be teeth-grindingly upset about what was done to them.

Tactically, if I wanted to take out both oders it seems like the order of the virgin would be the one I'd destroy first. The order of the scarlet woman would either hemorrhage it's populace and members to my side if they aren't automatically charming everyone, collapse, or be so weakened by the loss of their main enemy that they could be taken relatively easily.

Politically however, to get the numbers needed to take on either side would probably require fighting against the order of the scarlet woman first since a merely repressive society would beat out a society which practices personality death, followed by physical and psychological abuse.

These options however are based on the idea that these are the only two options available to those looking for truly powerful backers during a takeover bid.
Which seems unlikely.

Personally,
It is interesting that of the two extremes it is the order of the scarlet woman who have decided that charm spells are required.
It gives the appearance of weakness to their cause.

The problem your orders and potentially you too have from your use of "Miss" instead of "Elf Witch" is the application of what I believe is called the Golden Rule.
"Do unto others as you would have done unto you."
Translation: "Treat others in the same way you would like to be treated."

Personal Translation: "If there is something you wouldn't want to have happen to you, then don't do it to other people."

I think that's from one of the Adam and Eve based bibles, but I'm not sure.
 
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