List of Broken Powers

[KarinsDad]

And occupying a few enemies for a few rounds is well within the accePtable range of things a fighter should be able to do.

The problem I have with Come And Get It is that it forces movement without any sort of a roll. That means that a 7th level Fighter can force Orcus to move automatically (not that he would want to do this).

There are a few abilities (like ones which decrease the amount of forced movement) that prevent this, but they are few and far between.

I would have no problem if Come And Get It required some type of Will roll to entice foes to come after the Fighter. But automatic forced movement shouldn't exist in the game system shy of some physical effect (like some form of telekinetic ability).

 

[TarionzCousin]

Astral Condemnation (Cleric Daily 1)

Iron to Glass (Cleric Daily 5)

Why doesn't the Cleric in my group have these [-]useful[/-] broken powers?

 

[Ferghis]

The problem I have with Come And Get It is that it forces movement without any sort of a roll. That means that a 7th level Fighter can force Orcus to move automatically (not that he would want to do this).

I agree that it's unjustifiably overpowered. There was a thread about CaGi a bit ago that amply proved this. I just don't think it's broken. Sure, it can work on Orcus, but so could (in complete non-combat terms) slitting his throat while he sleeps. My point is that even though everyone is subject to it, that doesn't break the game. There doesn't seem to be any real unfairness in a power that surrounds the defender with folks that want to kill him. That's why I was saying that it's almost a class feature.

HAD TO CHANGE COMPUTERS-WILL EDIT POST TO FINALIZE IT.

As for the lack of a to hit roll to trigger the pulling effect, while I again agree that it is overpowered in abstract terms ("You can force anyone to move!"), in practice or play it's much less of an issue. A warden can create difficult terrain around him, preventing most from shifting. A swordmage can teleport to strike his marked opponent from almost anywhere in the battlefield. There are tons of effects that don't take a to-hit roll to activate. Personally, I'm much more troubled by the avenger's double roll power, but I'm told by smarter people than me that it's not overpowered. Back to the point at hand, it's a stunningly powerful power, and it's my fighter's go-to combo (along with shielded sides) as early as possible every encounter. But as the only defender in that party, it's the only way I can really do the job I'm supposed to do.

[size=-3]As if only missing only three times over the course of 5 levels could not be overpowered. Envious grumble.[/size]

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

Perhaps unfairly, I've come to see CaGi almost as a class feature. I completely agree that it is way beyond the acceptable power level at mid heroic, but what are the net effects? Your defender fulfills her or his tactical role. It doesn't heal or damage a ton. It doesn't inflict debilitating effects (all the targets can still attack the fighter). All it does is really just let the fighter do his or her job. This is nothing that even remotely breaks the game.

I can see raising an eyebrow if a fighter can somehow use CaGi for doing more than that. I wince at stun-locking combos. But something that merely achieves the class role (even if to great effect) is not remotely broken, in my opinion. For example nobody has included high damage striker powers in this thread. That's because doing lots of damage is a striker's job. I won't get into surgeless healing (or its temp HP cousin) because it takes away from the point (and I agree that it's overpowered). But I think that for something to be game breaking you have to do something that's really beyond the acceptable. And occupying a few enemies for a few rounds is well within the accePtable range of things a fighter should be able to do.

CaGI + RoS + some static damage optimization can get kinda ugly, and can be combined with your various polearm lockdown build stuff in interesting ways. Still, I agree.

Note too that CaGI has become MUCH more of a two-edged sword with monsters now having a lot more damage output. Sure, pull those couple of brutes and that soldier over to you, Joe Dwarf, go right ahead. Splat! Beatdown can be quick and nasty, to the point that actually using the power at all can be unwise in many situations.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

Note too that CaGI has become MUCH more of a two-edged sword with monsters now having a lot more damage output. Sure, pull those couple of brutes and that soldier over to you, Joe Dwarf, go right ahead. Splat! Beatdown can be quick and nasty, to the point that actually using the power at all can be unwise in many situations.

In the first 4e game I ran (orcus mods) we had a fighter with CaGI, and he held everything tight with it. then last year we had a dwarf fighter that had it that was almost suicidal...

the damage boost makes a big diffrence, then again since more then once he pulled skimishers that get bonus damage with CA into postion to flank him...maybe poor tactics played a role.

 

[Aegeri]

When the damage was increased last year, CaGI turned from an encounter ending power to one that just got the fighter almost instantly gibbed.

 

[chitzk0i]

What annoys me about Consecrated Ground is that a Close Burst 1 that creates a moveable zone makes the rules cry. Either the zone ends instantly, or it has no range limit.

 

[Aulirophile]

What annoys me about Consecrated Ground is that a Close Burst 1 that creates a moveable zone makes the rules cry. Either the zone ends instantly, or it has no range limit.

Or "Close Burst 1" is a range (it is, according to the PHB) and the Cleric must always remain in the zone or it ends at the end of his turn (Moveable Conjurations don't end instantly, they end at EoT if they are out of range). Also supported by the official FAQ on Spirit Companions (Close Burst 20).

Also why the zone is relatively trivial to deal with. Push the Cleric out of it and Immoblize him. Done. Even just forcing him to provoke OAs to get back to the zone hurts. If the encounter is in such a close room that isn't possible, commend your Cleric on using a daily at the right time.

Was sort of hoping this thread would be about powers that are actually broken (i.e., don't work, like Dazing Rebuke) as opposed to powers that are fun and actually useful just as they are. Ah well.

 

[Psikus]

When the damage was increased last year, CaGI turned from an encounter ending power to one that just got the fighter almost instantly gibbed.

That is an interesting point (I haven't seen CaGI in play since the damage boost), but it may be more of a sign of reckless strategies than a defect of the power. Since using forced movement is always optional, a player can choose to leave as many enemies as needed out of the power effect.

So you can still CaGI for 3-4 monsters, rather than 4-5 as before, if it is the optimal thing to do. Does that make the power less abusive, or just different? Intuitively, it would seem that the new artificial limit on the number of enemies to pull does weaken it, but I'd have to try it out.

Also why the zone is relatively trivial to deal with. Push the Cleric out of it and Immoblize him. Done. Even just forcing him to provoke OAs to get back to the zone hurts. If the encounter is in such a close room that isn't possible, commend your Cleric on using a daily at the right time. .

I think the minor detail of having a monster selection in the fight that can push (Bull Rush is usually a joke) AND immobilize is a far less common occurrence than you suggest.

 

[Aulirophile]

Who said anything about bullrush? Enemy controllers have slides/pushes/pulls/fear effects. Solos basically always have them, especially these days. A four square push/slide/pull+a melee monster moving up next to the Cleric so it has to provoke an OA (minimum) to save the zone is hardly an unusual occurrence (bonus points, use a minion to grab the Cleric: Immobilize... at-will, yeah, that is super rare, and against a Wis/Cha Cleric's weakest NAD). Unless for some strange reason as a DM you are building encounters with zero monster synergy and zero control (in which case any competent party will steamroll your encounters no matter what powers they pick, but that isn't the powers fault).

People only think Consecrated Ground is "overpowered" (ugh) because they don't understand how fragile it is. Even in an original module like Thunderspire Labyrinth, that last fight against the Wizard it was a mixed-blessing. Sure, free healing, but you had to stay grouped up to use it and his AE's really hurt. And that was before the new damage expressions and monsters getting more battlefield control as the default. Now it is completely trivial for the DM to focus the Cleric and move him out of the zone with standard monsters.

Even the new LFR module encounters make a joke out it.

But whatever, I think Consecrated Ground is a decent daily if used in the right situation, and in tons of situations is trivially dealt with just by encounter design. Considering that fact, it should shine when used under the right circumstances.