List of Broken Powers

[KarinsDad]

Who said anything about bullrush? Enemy controllers have slides/pushes/pulls/fear effects. Solos basically always have them, especially these days. A four square push/slide/pull+a melee monster moving up next to the Cleric so it has to provoke an OA (minimum) to save the zone is hardly an unusual occurrence (bonus points, use a minion to grab the Cleric: Immobilize... at-will, yeah, that is super rare, and against a Wis/Cha Cleric's weakest NAD). Unless for some strange reason as a DM you are building encounters with zero monster synergy and zero control (in which case any competent party will steamroll your encounters no matter what powers they pick, but that isn't the powers fault).

People only think Consecrated Ground is "overpowered" (ugh) because they don't understand how fragile it is.

This will only be an issue for a well designed party a few times. Then they will take abilities to work around it.

Clerics, especially strength Clerics, can easily get Athletics as a background or multiclass skill or even just picked up as a skill feat. Grab can also be defeated by a plethora of slide ally powers that now exist.

Teleport (ally or self) can also get a Cleric back into the zone before the end of his turn.

I think you are over-emphasizing the abilities of a small handful of monsters that do not show up in most encounters, and underestimating the abilities of a well designed group of PCs who will work to shore up any weaknesses that they perceive.

Sure, the DM can be a rat bastard DM and have multiple NPC ways to counter Consecrated Ground in every single encounter of n+2 or stronger when it might be used, but that's lame and illustrates the point of how potent Consecrated Ground actually is.

 

[Nullzone]

Color me crazy, but at the very least RAI when looking at the Consecrated Ground text tells me the zone is perfectly capable of existing without the Cleric in it, as the text specifically says "You can move the origin square of the zone 3 squares with a move action" but doesn't mention the cleric himself moving at all (contrast to other powers where it specifically mentions you moving and dragging the zone with you).

Moreover, the Conjuration keyword is nowhere to be found on it, so I don't even think the movable conjuration law has ground to stand on.

An immobilized cleric should have no problem moving the zone around (not like he was using that action to begin with...), or sustaining it. Even the flavor text indicates that it's a completely independent construct; the divine energy isn't radiating from the cleric specifically, and it "moves at his whim".

 

[Aegeri]

Sure, the DM can be a rat bastard DM and have multiple NPC ways to counter Consecrated Ground in every single encounter of n+2 or stronger when it might be used, but that's lame and illustrates the point of how potent Consecrated Ground actually is.

It's not that great. Monsters with auras and zones of their own love it - dump it on the consecrated ground for great hilarity. One of my first** epic TPKs when I was playtesting the new damage with my IRL group was a party that bunched up in consecrated ground. My two AoE elite artillery tore them to absolute shreds and they never recovered. I almost TPKed an actual non-playtest party when they bunched up for consecrated ground as well.

Quite frankly, anything that makes you bunch up in a game where monsters with AoE powers - frequently encounter powers with +50%ish damage increase - is just suicide.

**In fact the first epic tier TPK I ever got was arguably the direct result of this power and the PCs non-awareness of just how much damage the monsters gained. Also it's well worth noting that the changes to surgeless healing heavily nerfed this power into oblivion. The epic party above only wanted it as they were a pseudo-radiant mafia - unfortunately for them it backfired :O

Edit: Also I am confused why moving the cleric out of the zone does anything. The zone stays put and can be sustained, you don't have to be in it or anything. The burst just specifies the size of the zone and where it is created: Not the condition on the sustain. I am so confused as to where the rules argument he has to be in the zone comes from.

 

[KarinsDad]

Quite frankly, anything that makes you bunch up in a game where monsters with AoE powers - frequently encounter powers with +50%ish damage increase - is just suicide.

Consecrated Ground isn't for bunching up the PCs. PCs should never bunch up in it (although having 1 to 3 PCs in at at any time is probably ok).

It's for getting unconscious PCs conscious every single round and punishes NPCs for moving in a small bit as well.

It's also real good for healing the party half way up after the encounter without using any healing surges.

It's definitely a lot stronger at Heroic tier than at Epic tier though.

 

[KarinsDad]

Color me crazy, but at the very least RAI when looking at the Consecrated Ground text tells me the zone is perfectly capable of existing without the Cleric in it, as the text specifically says "You can move the origin square of the zone 3 squares with a move action" but doesn't mention the cleric himself moving at all (contrast to other powers where it specifically mentions you moving and dragging the zone with you).

Moreover, the Conjuration keyword is nowhere to be found on it, so I don't even think the movable conjuration law has ground to stand on.

An immobilized cleric should have no problem moving the zone around (not like he was using that action to begin with...), or sustaining it. Even the flavor text indicates that it's a completely independent construct; the divine energy isn't radiating from the cleric specifically, and it "moves at his whim".

The zone rules also specify that the zone must stay in range.

 

[Nullzone]

Fair enough; I still say the wording makes the zone independent of the cleric in RAI, regardless of the fact that the power's range states close burst 1. Poor choice in terms and/or a way to prevent the cleric from dropping the field from a safe distance, perhaps.

If the wording of the power indicated that the divine energy was radiating out from the cleric himself, then I'd be inclined to agree with the idea that the cleric has to remain the origin (and would probably just change it to an aura to prevent confusion >.>)

 

[Aulirophile]

Edit: Also I am confused why moving the cleric out of the zone does anything. The zone stays put and can be sustained, you don't have to be in it or anything. The burst just specifies the size of the zone and where it is created: Not the condition on the sustain. I am so confused as to where the rules argument he has to be in the zone comes from.

Color me crazy, but at the very least RAI when looking at the Consecrated Ground text tells me the zone is perfectly capable of existing without the Cleric in it,

Moveable Zones end automatically if the Caster is not within Range of the Power, using the Power's Range, at End of Turn. The Zone is a Moveable Zone, the Range is Burst 1. Therefore if the Cleric ends turn not in the zone, it ends. PHB1/MM1/MM2 is where the rule shows up (I don't know why it is also in the MMs) This is a general rule for all Moveable Zones, which is why just looking at Consecrated Ground is unlikely to clue you in.

 

[The Little Raven]

http://www.wizards.com/dndinsider/compendium/glossary.aspx?id=425

A movable zone ends at the end of its creator’s turn if the creator is not within range of at least 1 square of it (using the power’s range) or if the creator doesn’t have line of effect to at least 1 square of it.

A cleric does not need to remain within the zone of Consecrated Ground, so long as he has line of effect to at least one square of it.

 

[Aulirophile]

A cleric does not need to remain within the zone of Consecrated Ground, so long as he has line of effect to at least one square of it.

You misread that. Though after a little research I guess they clarified this at some point with the following FAQ. So the Cleric can be one square away from the burst.

1. The Dragon Storm power has a zone that starts in a close burst 2, but can be moved. How far can I move it?

You can move the zone 3 squares, and it ends if you end your turn more than 2 squares away from it.
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[KarinsDad]

A cleric does not need to remain within the zone of Consecrated Ground, so long as he has line of effect to at least one square of it.

You misread that.

"A movable zone ends at the end of its creator’s turn if the creator is not within range of at least 1 square of it (using the power’s range) or if the creator doesn’t have line of effect to at least 1 square of it."

If the creator is not within range of at least 1 square of the zone, it ends.

If the creator doesn’t have line of effect to at least 1 square of the zone, it ends.

Either one of these will end it. If it were an AND instead of an OR, then both would be required to end it.