Martial Power help needed!

[Shadeus]

1. First off, although not a question. I HATE that WotC is deciding to reuse names of powers and feats. So far I have found three: seize the moment (a feat in the PhB and a power in MP), Into the Fray, and Press the Advantage. There's not enough word combinations to come up with something unique?

2. Can someone clarify how the battlerager temp hp works? So if you get hit with 3 melee in a round and you have a 18 Con, does that mean you have 4 temp hit points three times?

2a. Extending the above example, if you get hit with a ranged attack the next round, for 10 hp damage, does that mean you took 6 damage, took off 4 of your temp hit point and still have two instances of 4 hp left remaining? So effectively, you have 4 more hp each time.

2b. Again, continuing the example, if the next round you get hit for 2 hp damage from a ranged again, you will have one full 4 hp left and one temp hp with 2. Does it then just go to the greatest number (4 in this case) for future attacks?

2c. So...you have to keep track of the temp hp you gain from each hit? Doesn't that seem like a lot to keep track of?

3. I see that hit points gained from "invigorating" attacks stack with any other temp hp. Okay, that's cool. So you use an invigorating power and you get to add temp hp. I guess you just add to whichever one has the most (following question 2b). I heard others on the board saying now they need to "keep track of the source of the temp hp." What do they mean? Don't the invigorating ones just stack up?

4. I was looking at the death dealer rogue paragon path. It's got an ability called Slaying Action where "when you spend an action point to take an extra action, you gain a +2 bonus to each damage die until the start of your next turn." So is this just to the 2W or 3W of the power? Or, for example, if I use a 3W power with a sneak attack, that's 6 dice. So is that +12 or +6?

5. The blade vault power (p. 75). It says you can shift 2 squares and "for every square you shifted as part of this power, the attack deals extra damage equal to your Str modifier." So if I'm a brutal scoundral with combat advanatage. Does this means I do 1W + Dex + Str (x3) + sneak attack?

Thanks! I appreciate everyone's help.

 

[Drakhar]

1. First off, although not a question. I HATE that WotC is deciding to reuse names of powers and feats. So far I have found three: seize the moment (a feat in the PhB and a power in MP), Into the Fray, and Press the Advantage. There's not enough word combinations to come up with something unique?

2. Can someone clarify how the battlerager temp hp works? So if you get hit with 3 melee in a round and you have a 18 Con, does that mean you have 4 temp hit points three times?

2a. Extending the above example, if you get hit with a ranged attack the next round, for 10 hp damage, does that mean you took 6 damage, took off 4 of your temp hit point and still have two instances of 4 hp left remaining? So effectively, you have 4 more hp each time.

2b. Again, continuing the example, if the next round you get hit for 2 hp damage from a ranged again, you will have one full 4 hp left and one temp hp with 2. Does it then just go to the greatest number (4 in this case) for future attacks?

2c. So...you have to keep track of the temp hp you gain from each hit? Doesn't that seem like a lot to keep track of?

3. I see that hit points gained from "invigorating" attacks stack with any other temp hp. Okay, that's cool. So you use an invigorating power and you get to add temp hp. I guess you just add to whichever one has the most (following question 2b). I heard others on the board saying now they need to "keep track of the source of the temp hp." What do they mean? Don't the invigorating ones just stack up?

4. I was looking at the death dealer rogue paragon path. It's got an ability called Slaying Action where "when you spend an action point to take an extra action, you gain a +2 bonus to each damage die until the start of your next turn." So is this just to the 2W or 3W of the power? Or, for example, if I use a 3W power with a sneak attack, that's 6 dice. So is that +12 or +6?

5. The blade vault power (p. 75). It says you can shift 2 squares and "for every square you shifted as part of this power, the attack deals extra damage equal to your Str modifier." So if I'm a brutal scoundral with combat advanatage. Does this means I do 1W + Dex + Str (x3) + sneak attack?

Thanks! I appreciate everyone's help.

2. You get hit three times. First hit resolves you gain 4 temp hp. Second hit resolves you take damage minus the 4 temp hp you had and gain another 4 temp hp after, same for attack 3. You only ever have 4 temp hp, not 4 temp hp x 3 sets.

3. If you have any temp hit points when you hit with an invigorating power (and you're a battlerager) You simply add the amount gained from the power to what you had. No worrying about sources.

4. a 3W power would be +6 plus another +6 from the sneak attack so yes, +12.

5. you would deal 1w + dex + 2x str + sneak attack + str as a brutal rogue.

 

[Shadeus]

Thanks for your feedback!

2. You get hit three times. First hit resolves you gain 4 temp hp. Second hit resolves you take damage minus the 4 temp hp you had and gain another 4 temp hp after, same for attack 3. You only ever have 4 temp hp, not 4 temp hp x 3 sets.

I'm surprised. Usually when you get temp hp, only the highest value counts. They don't stack, but I would expect you to still at least GET the temp hp (just not have them count for anything).

3. If you have any temp hit points when you hit with an invigorating power (and you're a battlerager) You simply add the amount gained from the power to what you had. No worrying about sources.

Good. I am hoping to also hear from those that indicated you need to keep track of the source so they can explain why this was said.

4. a 3W power would be +6 plus another +6 from the sneak attack so yes, +12.

5. you would deal 1w + dex + 2x str + sneak attack + str as a brutal rogue.

 

[James McMurray]

I'm surprised. Usually when you get temp hp, only the highest value counts. They don't stack, but I would expect you to still at least GET the temp hp (just not have them count for anything).

You do get them, and they do count for something. The reduce the damage you take from the hits. The end result is:

1 - you're at normal hp with no temps
2 - you get hit for x damage and gain 4 temp hp
3 - you get hit for y damage, lose some temp hp, and gain 4 temp hp
4 - you get hit for z damage, lose some temp hp, and gain 4 temp hp

Assuming y and z are both greater than or equal to 4, you'll have taken x + y + z - 8 damage and have 4 temporary hit points.

 

[DracoSuave]

5. you would deal 1w + dex + 2x str + sneak attack + str as a brutal rogue.

This distinction is important, by the way, because your sneak attack damage (in red) only applies on hits, so with daily powers, you'd only halve the first part.

Actually... that's an interesting difference with Ruthless Ruffians...

 

[Kaffis]

Battleragers do have to do some minimal temp HP source tracking.

Namely, they should track their invigorating temp HP (which stack with everything else) and their non-invigorating temp HP separately. Why? Because if you get 2 temp from non-stacking source A, 4 invigorating temp, and then you have the opportunity to get more from non-stacking source B... B and A don't stack just because you had an invigorating thrown in between them.

If you don't track separately, if you get 2 temp from A, and then 4 from invigoration, then you'd say "I have 6 temp HP." Now, when a boost of 3 temp comes along from B, you'd say "Well, invigorating temp stacks, so now I have 9." This would be, I think, incorrect.

Instead, in the above situation, you get 2 temp from A, and 4 from invigoration, and say, "I have 2 temp HP, and 4 stacking temp HP." Now, when B gives you 3, you say "I have 3 temp HP, and 4 stacking temp HP."

But temp HP only falls into two categories for a battlerager -- stuff that doesn't stack with each other, and invigorating stuff that stacks with itself and everything else. So it's not too much bookkeeping. You just keep two tallies of temp HP (and subtract normal temp HP first if you're smart).

 

[Kordeth]

Battleragers do have to do some minimal temp HP source tracking.

Namely, they should track their invigorating temp HP (which stack with everything else) and their non-invigorating temp HP separately. Why? Because if you get 2 temp from non-stacking source A, 4 invigorating temp, and then you have the opportunity to get more from non-stacking source B... B and A don't stack just because you had an invigorating thrown in between them.

If you don't track separately, if you get 2 temp from A, and then 4 from invigoration, then you'd say "I have 6 temp HP." Now, when a boost of 3 temp comes along from B, you'd say "Well, invigorating temp stacks, so now I have 9." This would be, I think, incorrect.

Instead, in the above situation, you get 2 temp from A, and 4 from invigoration, and say, "I have 2 temp HP, and 4 stacking temp HP." Now, when B gives you 3, you say "I have 3 temp HP, and 4 stacking temp HP."

But temp HP only falls into two categories for a battlerager -- stuff that doesn't stack with each other, and invigorating stuff that stacks with itself and everything else. So it's not too much bookkeeping. You just keep two tallies of temp HP (and subtract normal temp HP first if you're smart).

Actually, you don't track temporary hp separately. Invigorating temp hp stack with temp hp you already have. If you already have temp hp, it doesn't matter where they came from. More invigorating temp hp will add to the stack, non-invigorating won't.

Example: Bob the battlerager has 30 hp and an 18 Con.

Round 1: Bob is hit for 4 damage by a melee attack. Bob now has 26 hp and 4 temp hp from battlerager vigor. On Bob's turn, he hits with an invigorating power that grants 4 temporary hp. He now has 26 hp and 8 temp hp.

Round 2: Bob is hit by a melee attack for 1 damage. He now has 26 hp and 7 temp hp. He does not add together the temporary hp he previously got from an invigorating power with this new temp hp, because invigorating powers only stack with temp hp he already has, not with any temp hp he gains later. Once the temp hp is in his pool, it's just temp hp.

 

[abyssaldeath]

Battleragers do have to do some minimal temp HP source tracking.

Namely, they should track their invigorating temp HP (which stack with everything else) and their non-invigorating temp HP separately. Why? Because if you get 2 temp from non-stacking source A, 4 invigorating temp, and then you have the opportunity to get more from non-stacking source B... B and A don't stack just because you had an invigorating thrown in between them.

If you don't track separately, if you get 2 temp from A, and then 4 from invigoration, then you'd say "I have 6 temp HP." Now, when a boost of 3 temp comes along from B, you'd say "Well, invigorating temp stacks, so now I have 9." This would be, I think, incorrect.

Instead, in the above situation, you get 2 temp from A, and 4 from invigoration, and say, "I have 2 temp HP, and 4 stacking temp HP." Now, when B gives you 3, you say "I have 3 temp HP, and 4 stacking temp HP."

But temp HP only falls into two categories for a battlerager -- stuff that doesn't stack with each other, and invigorating stuff that stacks with itself and everything else. So it's not too much bookkeeping. You just keep two tallies of temp HP (and subtract normal temp HP first if you're smart).

No, no, no. That not how it works. I don't feel like explaining again so just read this thread. http://www.enworld.org/forum/d-d-4t...icial-ruling-battlerager-vigor-mechanics.html

 

[Hypersmurf]

Actually, you don't track temporary hp separately. Invigorating temp hp stack with temp hp you already have.

Right - this is the critical phrase. If the rule was that "unlike normal THP, invigorating THP stack", you'd need to track separately, and you'd need some way of determining whether normal or invigorating THP were lost first when you took damage.

But the "you already have" phrase means that the distinction is only important at the instant the THP are received, and determines whether they stack or overlap with the existing pool of THP. As soon as that determination is made, you can then completely forget the source of the THP you just received. It removes any consideration of future THP from the problem.

-Hyp.