D&D (2024) Martial vs Caster: Removing the "Magical Dependencies" of high level.

[Hussar]

Sure. What one are we using? The one @Chaosmancer proposed? Cool. Now we can use that to put together the class.

No.

Absolutely not.

Either you provide a narrative you find acceptable or stop asking.

Endless gain saying other people is not acting in good faith.

So step up. Give me a narrative you find acceptable.

 

[Micah Sweet]

In a game specific to one setting, where the "how" has a narrative impact, I might agree.

That isn't what D&D is. The settings vary and should with DMs conceptions of them. And with the possible exception of Warlock patrons, the likelihood of any class's "how" having a differentiable narrative impact is vanishingly small.

And I'll point out again that you've admitted that both groups we're comparing have insufficient narrative justification (by your standards) for the mechanics they possess

Yet one group is allowed to exist, and one is not. And it seems you are fine with this.

But you're not being unfair?

How does this work for you?

I use better justifications for spellcasters in my own game, because I can't get rid of the WotC ones. I would expect at least as much from a mythic martial as I would from a wizard, through base and subclasses. The mechanics are not the only thing that matters, for any class.

 

[Hussar]

I use better justifications for spellcasters in my own game, because I can't get rid of the WotC ones. I would expect at least as much from a mythic martial as I would from a wizard, through base and subclasses. The mechanics are not the only thing that matters, for any class.

But you quite famously don’t play WotC DnD and have no interest in playing. Why should anything designed for 5e consider your feelings on the issue?

 

[Micah Sweet]

And not everyone cares about the base design and they want to make up their own. So those players will appreciate a flexible approach. See, I can appeal to "well other players" too.

That doesn't mean there shouldn't be a base narrative at all.

 

[Micah Sweet]

But you quite famously don’t play WotC DnD and have no interest in playing. Why should anything designed for 5e consider your feelings on the issue?

I assume whatever you guys come up with would potentially have value in my game, and I like the idea of a mythic martial, provided it has a reasonable narrative justification.

 

[Hussar]

That doesn't mean there shouldn't be a base narrative at all.

So supply one. Pony up. Pee or get off the pot.

See it’s not that we don’t care about the narrative. That’s not the issue. The issue is no narrative supplied is acceptable and you and others refuse to provide one that is.

We’re at the point now where we’re willing to accept any narrative just so we can move forward.

So please provide one so we can get out of this endless round and round.

 

[Micah Sweet]

There is a giant battery in the center of the multiverse that is charged with martial power and all warriors can tap into that power to exercise their will on reality.

That's legitimately pretty funny. I figured if I used the emoji you would assume it was intended derisively.

 

[Gammadoodler]

I assume whatever you guys come up with would potentially have value in my game, and I like the idea of a mythic martial, provided it has a reasonable narrative justification.

I think the problem is you want one specific justification. Some folks have been willing to provide you with extra-phb narrative justifications, and to your credit, as long as they are not the existing narrative, I don't believe you've opined one way or the other. (Yaarel is more sensitive to these)

For myself, I don't think you need a specific narrative justification, and I think providing something specific actively damages the flexibility of the game.

For me, an unparalleled warrior in a fantasy setting, who is intended to be a heroic presence within that setting has all the justification they need for whatever fantastic shenanigans they get up to, especially at high levels.

Which is why I feel the existing justification is already adequate.

We could add some explicit statement that high level martials are known for supernatural exploits or something, but it'd be pretty depressing if it's an actual need.

Like..it's fantasy guys..

 

[Yaarel]

For me, an unparalleled warrior in a fantasy setting, who is intended to be a heroic presence within that setting has all the justification they need for whatever fantastic shenanigans they get up to, especially at high levels.

Consider the superhuman powers of reallife mythic heroes:

Greek heroes are fully or partly gods ≈ Divine magic.

Norse heroes utilize mind (hugar) and self-image (hamr) ≈ Psionic magic.

Japanese heroes utilize ki ≈ Ki magic.

Mythic heroes come with an origin story.

 

[Micah Sweet]

So supply one. Pony up. Pee or get off the pot.

See it’s not that we don’t care about the narrative. That’s not the issue. The issue is no narrative supplied is acceptable and you and others refuse to provide one that is.

We’re at the point now where we’re willing to accept any narrative just so we can move forward.

So please provide one so we can get out of this endless round and round.

Ok.

"Since the beginning of recorded history, there have always been individuals who display unusual, even supernatural abilities above and beyond those normally afforded to their heritage. These beings usually display this power in adolescence, though occasionally it is present from childhood or even at birth. The abilities vary wildly, from flight, to immense strength or speed, enhanced senses, or even stranger abilities like energy projection or telepathy, all without any overt use of magic as it is commonly understood. Those with these abilities tend to be physically fit as a rule, as this is a function of the body more than the mind, and as a result generally enter into warrior training to merge their power with conditioning and skill.

Many possibilities for the origins of this power have been posited by scholars on the subject. Perhaps it is associated with their bloodline. They may be a randomly-ocurring magical "knot" that consolidates the magic of the planes around a single person. This power often manifests during periods of great stress, so it may be the result of a beings' true potential being accidentally unlocked. In any case, those who possess such power grow it through maturity, experience and training, eventually able to reach heights of ability matched only by the strongest of wizards and their ilk."

This is basically a superhero class, based largely on the mutants of Marvel Comics. Base class abilities would offer a menu of combat and noncombat abilities to choose from at different levels, along with general increases in physical ability (extra attack, saves, and the like). Subclasses would define classic archetypes in more detail. It would be fairly complex as WotC classes go, but about right for Level Up or similar crunchier systems.