D&D General Maybe I was ALWAYs playing 4e... even in 2e

[GMforPowergamers]

Though it's worth noting, because 4e does not give +Con mod to HP, 5e HP actually can overtake 4e HP for high-Con characters.

Consider, for example, a Con 16 Fighter. At 1st level in each system, these characters would have...
4e: 15+16 = 31 HP
5e: 10+3 = 13 HP

If we crank it up to level 30, assuming this character only bumps Con to 20 (the max in 5e):
4e: 15+20+29*6 = 209
5e: 10+5+19*11 = 224

Even though the 5e character has fewer HP to start with--less than half!--its HP grows dramatically faster because of adding Con mod. Had the 5e Fighter kept the 16 Con, they'd be a bit below the 4e character...but nowhere near half. (It would be 186 vs 209, a difference of only 23 HP.)

It is why I am pushing for 2e hp 5e low numbers and 4e structure (with adv/disav and concentration) for 6e.

2e hp BUT with a bump I should say... my most resent test was 3hd at 1st level then 1hd every odd level and a sethp at even levels... all HD lower no con mod to hp

wizards start with 12 (3d4 maxed)
FIghters start with 24 (3d8 max)
barbarians with 30 (3d10 max)

then at level 2 the wizard gets 1hp more (13) and the fighter and barbarian get 3 (27 and 33) then at level 3 they each get there 4th HD

you would spend HD like 5e but some (not all) magic healing would be based on 'spend a HD+' or 'heal as if you spent a HD' but you would keep con bonus to hp recovered from HD.

so a wizard gets to 20th with 12d4+10 (average 44hp) and the barbarian has 12d10+30 (avg 109hp) and lower ALL damages to go with it. a fireball doing 5d6 (17) sounds deadly in that game

 

[GMforPowergamers]

I am not the only math head that noticed someone actually pointed it out to me and I started crunching, actually its something again one might ask about on the 4e discord server

if I get on there I think I would be more interested in asking if anyone has a house ruled way to make fighters more like 4e... but I will check it out

 

[HammerMan]

It is why I am pushing for 2e hp 5e low numbers and 4e structure (with adv/disav and concentration) for 6e.

2e hp BUT with a bump I should say... my most resent test was 3hd at 1st level then 1hd every odd level and a sethp at even levels... all HD lower no con mod to hp

wizards start with 12 (3d4 maxed)
FIghters start with 24 (3d8 max)
barbarians with 30 (3d10 max)

then at level 2 the wizard gets 1hp more (13) and the fighter and barbarian get 3 (27 and 33) then at level 3 they each get there 4th HD

you would spend HD like 5e but some (not all) magic healing would be based on 'spend a HD+' or 'heal as if you spent a HD' but you would keep con bonus to hp recovered from HD.

so a wizard gets to 20th with 12d4+10 (average 44hp) and the barbarian has 12d10+30 (avg 109hp) and lower ALL damages to go with it. a fireball doing 5d6 (17) sounds deadly in that game

I have seen you post this and you fear/talent idea before. I have to ask with BOTH up/damage AND bonus to hit being small what makes a 11th level character more powerful then a 3rd level one?

 

[Garthanos]

Though it's worth noting, because 4e does not give +Con mod to HP, 5e HP actually can overtake 4e HP for high-Con characters.

sure but that is bogging in details and their are ameliorating distinctions.

Consider, for example, a Con 16 Fighter. At 1st level in each system, these characters would have...
4e: 15+16 = 31 HP
5e: 10+3 = 13 HP

If we crank it up to level 30, assuming this character only bumps Con to 20 (the max in 5e):
4e: 15+20+29*6 = 209
5e: 10+5+19*11 = 224

4e gives fighters many ready sources of temp hit points

Even though the 5e character has fewer HP to start with--less than half!--its HP grows dramatically faster because of adding Con mod. Had the 5e Fighter kept the 16 Con, they'd be a bit below the 4e character...but nowhere near half. (It would be 186 vs 209, a difference of only 23 HP.)

Edit: And, believe it or not, this difference is actually more pronounced for lower-HP characters, because high Con mod makes a bigger impact for them.

Helping out spell caster supremacy is you know the 5e reason to be.

The main thing separating 4e HP from 5e HP, which is invisible in this analysis, is that 4e characters have healing surges, which simultaneously increase and decrease their total daily HP. A 4e character is effectively not heal-able after they run out of surges; they technically can be healed (especially by daily powers), but effectively they're dry for the day and really, REALLY shouldn't be in combat if they can avoid it. That high Con mod gives an extra 5 healing surges, which is more than a full heal-up (125% of max HP, in theory). A Con 10 character has between 6 and 9 healing surges a day by default (6 for squishies like Wizards, 9 for beefy types like Fighters, with Paladins getting 1 extra surge due to how Lay on Hands works), so an extra 5 is enormous for a Wizard and decent for a Fighter or Paladin

And there are methods of gaining usage of healing surges with a minor action... no such luck for spending HD in mid fight.

 

[Garthanos]

if I get on there I think I would be more interested in asking if anyone has a house ruled way to make fighters more like 4e... but I will check it out

The makers of enworld would probably like to remind you how level up integrates maneuvers with all martial classes .