D&D 5E Mid- to high-level Wildshape [Moon Druids]

[Zardnaar]

You can't balance it if you power up the Moon Druid you obsolete the Land Druid and remove one of the few drawbacks the class has vs everything else. They toned down high level wild shape for a reason (remember 3.5?).

The Morph from EN5ider does what you ant (better wildshape options, pore wild shape, more damage), but the trade off is spellcasting. Only thing I can think if is trade out elemental wildshape for the ability to WS into monstrosity. We have also suggested using the Tome of Beasts which powers them up but not by a massive amount.

 

[CapnZapp]

You can't balance it if you power up the Moon Druid you obsolete the Land Druid and remove one of the few drawbacks the class has vs everything else. They toned down high level wild shape for a reason (remember 3.5?).

The Morph from EN5ider does what you ant (better wildshape options, pore wild shape, more damage), but the trade off is spellcasting. Only thing I can think if is trade out elemental wildshape for the ability to WS into monstrosity. We have also suggested using the Tome of Beasts which powers them up but not by a massive amount.

First off: are you sure? I'm not allowing monstrosity forms to cast spells.

Secondly, the druid does trade out elemental wildshape, in the way monstrosity wildshape eats a use of Wildshape, thus not allowing elemental forms (until you rest).

Thirdly, all I'm adding is a reason to (re) enter "beast" forms, which, again, precludes spellcasting.

The whole idea is to avoid the Moon Druid slowly turning into a caster Druid simply because the number of interesting combat forms dry up. It enhances the "moon" aspect of the chosen subclass if the player actually has reason to stay wildshaped. And trust me, the moon druid is far from overshadowing anyone else in the damage-dealing department.

If and when I have a Land Druid player I'm sure I'll get around to providing neat stuff for that subclass, but this is about the Moon Druid in a campaign where there are no Land Druids.

 

[Zardnaar]

I think people have seen level 2-6 moon druids and think OP. I lean more towards land Druids myself. Swapping some class features might work. I suspect moon druids would be decent at level 18 using the mammoth more as temporary hit points than as a battery for .

You could rewrite the class limiting it to medium shapes but scale the hit points and damage similar to the clerics but have the damage per attack not once per round. It would reign in some of the shapes craziness but kind of buff them later. For example a lvl 18 bear might have mammoth hit points and inflict 4d8 or 5d8 bonus damage per attack.

If you allowed other forms you could limit what they turn into based on size the bonus damage and hit points are constant though. New attack bonus is critters ability score mod plus your prof bonus.

 

[CapnZapp]

Since nobody seems to know of any preexisting ruleset, I'm going to try out the following:

Talisman of Monstrous Form 20,000 gp
Once per short rest, the wearer of this talisman may expend one use of wildshape to assume the form of a Monstrosity with an Intelligence score of 5 or lower. The CR of the form can be no higher than half your Druid level.

I'll see if my player picks it up.

 

[Ovarwa]

Hi,

Remember my initial post:

What I am looking for is well-considered and balanced houserules for Wildshape forms that take the progression enjoyed up until level ~10, and brings it also to Druids of high levels.

Like the one I posted! Though perhaps not so well-considered or balanced.

A more complete rewrite of the Moon Druid, staying in theme, not only has to deal with the lags in power from levels 5-9 and 12-17, but also the problematic power of levels 2 and 3. (Level 20 is powerful, but there are better schticks than being a big bag of hp.) I have a version, but it removes elemental forms entirely so does not quite fit what you need here.

Anyway,

Ken

 

[CapnZapp]

I'll get back here if and when my item sees any playtesting

 

[Cap'n Kobold]

I'll get back here if and when my item sees any playtesting

If not, may be worth checking with your Druid player about the kind of thing that they want out of Wild shape.
Do they want the ability to turn into dragons, monstrosities etc? Or do they still want to turn into beasts, but have those beast forms be able to contribute to the party's combat capability at higher levels?

Maybe some capability to sacrifice spell slots for more than just healing: Damage and AC boosts for example as well.

 

[Mistwell]

Do you know of any polished effort that attempts to give guidance on allowing Monstrosities or Dragons, perhaps?

I think allowing Monstrosities makes sense. I looked at the list, and I don't think it would be particularly unbalanced, and it opens up some interesting shapes.

You could also open up Celestials to good aligned Druids, and Monstrosities to Evil aligned Druids, and a choice between the two for neutral Druids.

 

[CapnZapp]

If not, may be worth checking with your Druid player about the kind of thing that they want out of Wild shape.
Do they want the ability to turn into dragons, monstrosities etc? Or do they still want to turn into beasts, but have those beast forms be able to contribute to the party's combat capability at higher levels?

Maybe some capability to sacrifice spell slots for more than just healing: Damage and AC boosts for example as well.

Isn't it just easier to use the natural progression of the Monster Manual?

I mean, creatures of the Beast category is after all perhaps the most low-level focused type of threats.

When I suggest Monstrosities, what I'm really suggesting, is the old Monstrous Beast type.

If anything that's the natural progression once you've out-levelled regular Beasts

 

[Cap'n Kobold]

Isn't it just easier to use the natural progression of the Monster Manual?

I mean, creatures of the Beast category is after all perhaps the most low-level focused type of threats.

When I suggest Monstrosities, what I'm really suggesting, is the old Monstrous Beast type.

If anything that's the natural progression once you've out-levelled regular Beasts

You know your players better than we do.