D&D (2024) Playtest 8 Druid discussion

[Jefe Bergenstein]

If there was one tweak I'd make to Moon Druids, it would be to have their beasts use the Druid's spell attack bonus for attacks. If I'm a Moon Druid turning into a Giant Scorpion at level 9, having a +4 to hit is just way too low.

Is it? You get 3 attacks, all of which have riders. 2x grapple and 1x 4d10 poison. The form also has blindsense and 40' movement. The fighter, the guy whose class based contribution is ONLY fighings and doesn't have a button to turn into a caster twice per rest, has 2 attacks at +8 or so.

Seems the scorpion form is trading accuracy for other effects. Druids should never equal a fighter, even in beast form.

 

[OB1]

Is it? You get 3 attacks, all of which have riders. 2x grapple and 1x 4d10 poison. The form also has blindsense and 40' movement. The fighter, the guy whose class based contribution is ONLY fighings and doesn't have a button to turn into a caster twice per rest, has 2 attacks at +8 or so.

Seems the scorpion form is trading accuracy for other effects. Druids should never equal a fighter, even in beast form.

That's why I didn't suggest the riders also equal the Druid's Spell Save DC. With a DC12 those riders aren't going to be going off very often in a level 9 or higher fight. With the +4 to attack, the Druid is doing about 12 damage a round, with a +9, that goes to 19.5.

 

[Jefe Bergenstein]

That's why I didn't suggest the riders also equal the Druid's Spell Save DC. With a DC12 those riders aren't going to be going off very often in a level 9 or higher fight. With the +4 to attack, the Druid is doing about 12 damage a round, with a +9, that goes to 19.5.

And a sword and board fighter is dealing about 19. The druid needs to be significantly weaker.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

If there was one tweak I'd make to Moon Druids, it would be to have their beasts use the Druid's spell attack bonus for attacks. If I'm a Moon Druid turning into a Giant Scorpion at level 9, having a +4 to hit is just way too low.

That is how companions evolved. (Compare artificer of eberron woth tasha). And we are then having templates in disguise. Which is great.

 

[mellored]

Or maybe create a new type called Hybrid Beast. But that wouldn’t be backwards compatible with 2014

Just add the tag then?

Monstrosity Beast.

 

[Shardstone]

A lot of ppl here are not realizing that in other media, the shapeshifting is the draw. Look at the recent movie. The cool part of her characters power was transforming. Essentially, she was a barbarian using wildshape. But the cool part about wildshape is its implicit versatile.

There are so many possibilities that come with transforming into different sized animals. It is an engaging, exciting, and satisfying power to play with. The other subclasses explore this more. Fungus druids are really cool. Wildfire druids are sick. The concept of becoming the thing or controlling a thing is an extension of wildshapes implict versatility. The druid is at once a problem solver, conjurer, shapeshifter, and nature-focused avatar.

The spells are cool and are presented as the focus. But I think a druid that turns a lot of spells into wildshape mods might be a more popular design. Just speculating, not claiming.

 

[Remathilis]

But who cares about the original design? Folks can play OSR if they want the original design. You aren’t going to sell anyone on a nerf by telling them it’s truer to the original design.

WotC’s own movie from this year makes it abundantly clear how Druids are seen today: shapeshifters who turn into animals and kick butt.

Original design portends class and archetype design. Its why wizards don't get Cure Wounds and Fighter's don't fly. Druid is the primary nature/primal caster class with a side of shapechange. A class that is "Ooops all Shapechange" is more akin to a warrior (monk or barbarian to be exact) who uses their animal shapes like a barbarian uses rage or a monk his martial arts. That also leaves a giant hole in the primal caster role as the only other primal caster is the ranger (who is a half-caster).

Long story short, you have to pick one of the following:
1.) Druid a shapeshifter primary who has limited or no spellcasting and the game lacks a primary primal caster.
2.) The druid a full primal caster who gets some shapechanging on the side, and a subclass that makes them a little more tankier/melee focused. (see: bladeslinger, college or war, or war domain)

 

[Yaarel]

Just add the tag then?

Monstrosity Beast.

"Monstrosity" can easily mean: "Magical Beast".

A "Beast" is comparable to a reallife animal, even if an amalgam of several reallife animals.

Meanwhile, a "Monstrosity" is a Beast-like creature with magical powers.

An Owlbear, a Griffon, and a Pegasus (if with naturalistic winged flight) can type as a Beast.

By contrast, a Beast-like creature with magical powers, such as an intelligent firebreathing Chimera or spellcasting Yuan-Ti, is a Monstrosity.


Probably the creature types, Humanoid, Beast, and Monstrosity, are all native to the Material Plane.

Because, if the creature is native elsewhere, the default creature type is Fey, Undead, Celestial, or so on.

There can be such thing as "Fey Humanoid" and "Celestial Beast" and "Undead Monstrosity", but then they behave as if a comparable creature that is made out of matter.

 

[Uni-the-Unicorn!]

where the monster math itself is being radically changed under our noses.

The monster math is most definitely not being radically changed. So you take that off your list

 

[Yaarel]

I am very satisfied with the playtest Druid class. I love how it offers several decision points to choose between a mage versus a gish. Especially the gish beefs up the Wild Shape forms.

The only niggly mechanics is the level 20 cap stone.

Re the level 20 capstone, Archdruid. I like how it too is a decision point between a magey caster versus a gishy shaper. But at first glance it feels more like a reorganization of the powers that the Druid already has, rather than an obvious "oomph" of a power boost to be a satisfying capstone to salivate after.

Even with this capstone, I am satisfied as-is. But it would be nice to have a capstone that is a bit more clearly impressive.