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Do you have an alternative hypothesis? Because I've heard the "they canceled the novels because WotC secretely hates Ed Greenwood!" theory, and let me say that's extremely dubious.

They canceled the novels because someone at WotC up and decided they weren't a novel company so they decided to externalities it by getting another company to do it, but failed specularily. The only reason reason RAS still does Drizzt novels is he worked his ass off trying to make a deal happen with a 3rd party company.

Honestly it's been a disaster both MtG and D&D side, story used to be at the heart of both and externaliting the novels killed that.
 

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Urriak Uruk

Gaming is fun, and fun is for everyone
They simply didn't care. They didn't want to support the staffing of individuals who would manage this.

It's not as if Wizards was authoring the books, or that the RPG team was needed to support an author.

It's like blaming an art team for software bugs.
They canceled the novels because someone at WotC up and decided they weren't a novel company so they decided to externalities it by getting another company to do it, but failed specularily. The only reason reason RAS still does Drizzt novels is he worked his ass off trying to make a deal happen with a 3rd party company.

Honestly it's been a disaster both MtG and D&D side, story used to be at the heart of both and externaliting the novels killed that.

I half-buy this. As in, I'll buy that they didn't care... if the novels weren't making enough money. If there truly was this huge readership and they were making a ton of money off it, there's no way they would have killed it.

But if the books were doing "just ok," I totally understand WotC cutting it off to double-down on their core business, which is gaming.

Also, I'm pretty sure they stopped MTG novels for a completely different reason; the reception to the War of the Spark novels was so negative they decided to just stop publishing.
 

Scribe

Hero
I half-buy this. As in, I'll buy that they didn't care... if the novels weren't making enough money. If there truly was this huge readership and they were making a ton of money off it, there's no way they would have killed it.

But if the books were doing "just ok," I totally understand WotC cutting it off to double-down on their core business, which is gaming.

Also, I'm pretty sure they stopped MTG novels for a completely different reason; the reception to the War of the Spark novels was so negative they decided to just stop publishing.
Eh, there was a whole thing on the MTG side that will do nothing but add negativity to ones life, not worth the key strokes.

I can absolutely accept the novels didn't make huge bank, but I don't think they would have been taking a loss in supporting them as an additional way into the hobby.

/shrug

I buy 40K novels though, so what do I know.
 

I half-buy this. As in, I'll buy that they didn't care... if the novels weren't making enough money. If there truly was this huge readership and they were making a ton of money off it, there's no way they would have killed it.

But if the books were doing "just ok," I totally understand WotC cutting it off to double-down on their core business, which is gaming.

Also, I'm pretty sure they stopped MTG novels for a completely different reason; the reception to the War of the Spark novels was so negative they decided to just stop publishing.

They weren't planning on killing it, they assumed a third party publisher would snap up a licensing deal, they didn't, yet. Companies try and externalities costs all the time like this, it's just this time it blew up in their face this time.
 


Urriak Uruk

Gaming is fun, and fun is for everyone
They weren't planning on killing it, they assumed a third party publisher would snap up a licensing deal, they didn't, yet. Companies try and externalities costs all the time like this, it's just this time it blew up in their face this time.

I'm sorry, "they were hoping a third-party publisher would snap up a licensing deal"? That's not how this works, you don't do business on hope. If WotC wanted someone to publish novels, they would go out and negotiate with a bunch of publishers, and eventually they would come to an agreement with someone.

It's been 5 years. If WotC really wanted someone publishing their novels this bad, it would have happened by now. And they are publishing some books and comics, so it's not like this is some impossible thing. Nothing has "blown up in their face," if WotC was desperate to get novels published, they would. They clearly don't care much about resurrecting the old novel paradigm (and if the novels had been super profitable, they would be).
 


Parmandur

Book-Friend
I half-buy this. As in, I'll buy that they didn't care... if the novels weren't making enough money. If there truly was this huge readership and they were making a ton of money off it, there's no way they would have killed it.

But if the books were doing "just ok," I totally understand WotC cutting it off to double-down on their core business, which is gaming.

Also, I'm pretty sure they stopped MTG novels for a completely different reason; the reception to the War of the Spark novels was so negative they decided to just stop publishing.
Actually, War of the Spark was done by an outside publisher, because WotC stopped doing Magic novels internally about 7 years ago. About the exact same time they phased out D&D fiction, and probably for the same reason: insufficient ROI. Novels are not the market they were in 1999 across the board, let alone for tie-in fiction.
 

Parmandur

Book-Friend
They weren't planning on killing it, they assumed a third party publisher would snap up a licensing deal, they didn't, yet. Companies try and externalities costs all the time like this, it's just this time it blew up in their face this time.
They didn't just assume that, third parties did step up even if nor at absurd TSR output: WotC assumes no risk from novels now, but get paid anyways while they focus on their core competency.
 

I was researching the original Commanders Legends, just to try and figure out what to expect from this set.

For regular cards it had 361 cards, of which 165 were new cards. They also reprinted 32 Legendary Creatures as Foil Edge only. That's 393, a dang big set. 72 new Legendary Creatures + the 32 reprinted Legendary Creature + 2 New Planeswalkers that could serve as Commanders is 104 Legendary Creatures & Planeswalkers Commanders.

But alot of those were reprints, so how will that work with this set, when there is only 1 recent printed D&D Forgotten Realms set?

I figure they will have some reprints, like any card that shares a name with a D&D spell like Fireball and Wall of Stone. They might add in the more setting neutral cards like Dockside Extortionist with D&D card and flavour text. They might add in Etch Foils of the AFR Legendaries. Still I think CL: BfBG will have alot more new cards then CL did.

At minimum that 72 new Legendary Creature cards + at least 2 Planeswalkers that can serve as your Commander.

So the question is who do you want to see in the set?

Should I make that question a new thread so it's not bogged down with all the other stuff discussed in this thread bogging it down?
 

Parmandur

Book-Friend
I'm sorry, "they were hoping a third-party publisher would snap up a licensing deal"? That's not how this works, you don't do business on hope. If WotC wanted someone to publish novels, they would go out and negotiate with a bunch of publishers, and eventually they would come to an agreement with someone.

It's been 5 years. If WotC really wanted someone publishing their novels this bad, it would have happened by now. And they are publishing some books and comics, so it's not like this is some impossible thing. Nothing has "blown up in their face," if WotC was desperate to get novels published, they would. They clearly don't care much about resurrecting the old novel paradigm (and if the novels had been super profitable, they would be).
I mean, they did and they have. The Drizz't books, the comics, the Endless Quest books, the children's story books, the art books, the cookbook...none of that is from WotC. That's outside publishers paying WotC for the privilege of making the books.
 



jeremypowell

Adventurer
The Drizz't books, the comics, the Endless Quest books, the children's story books, the art books, the cookbook...none of that is from WotC. That's outside publishers paying WotC for the privilege of making the books.
Don't forget the comic books and the upcoming "middle-grade" novel series (both also set at least partly in the Realms).

I've seen various people insisting that FR novels were quite profitable even at the end of the 4e era. I find this unlikely. But I also strongly suspect that the situation would be very different nowadays, and FR novels would sell much better. It's true that novel reading has continued to decline in the past decade, but on the other hand, the player base is much, much larger now, and FR is now the default setting for official adventures, which wasn't true in the 4e era.
 

Parmandur

Book-Friend
Don't forget the comic books and the upcoming "middle-grade" novel series (both also set at least partly in the Realms).

I've seen various people insisting that FR novels were quite profitable even at the end of the 4e era. I find this unlikely. But I also strongly suspect that the situation would be very different nowadays, and FR novels would sell much better. It's true that novel reading has continued to decline in the past decade, but on the other hand, the player base is much, much larger now, and FR is now the default setting for official adventures, which wasn't true in the 4e era.
Oh, I have no doubt they continued making a profit...but at a certain, a profit isn't sufficient if the return on investment doesn't make sense. They decided that full-time Twitch personnel made more sense than internal fiction editors. But HarperCollins and Penguin wouldn't be doing stuff if there wasn't a profit to be made, and the ROI for established fiction publishers who already have professional editors and such anyways make more sense business wise.
 


Don't forget the comic books and the upcoming "middle-grade" novel series (both also set at least partly in the Realms).

I've seen various people insisting that FR novels were quite profitable even at the end of the 4e era. I find this unlikely. But I also strongly suspect that the situation would be very different nowadays, and FR novels would sell much better. It's true that novel reading has continued to decline in the past decade, but on the other hand, the player base is much, much larger now, and FR is now the default setting for official adventures, which wasn't true in the 4e era.

Novel reading is starting to make come back.
 

I want Mehen, Sune, Sharess (unlikely), the Seven Sisters, Mirt, Amarune Lyone Armala Whitewave, Halivar/Farideh, Szazz Tam, the Queen of Cormyr, Nazram the World Walker, Everis Cale, Jarlaxle and his twin Copper Dragon Sisters, Yvonne the Younger, Bane, Bhaal, and Myrkul, Elminster, Lariel, Dragonbait, Shadowheart, Gale, the Lich Queen of the Githyanki, Malcanthet, Demigorgon, an Elder Brain, and more.
 

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