D&D 1E My clever theory: why 1e AD&D is being reprinted

[darjr]

I don't think it's been mentioned yet, but this blogger had the idea that it could be a kind of census.

The Hydra's Grotto: The 1e Re-release is a Census

 

[Sylrae]

I'm not all that interested in this product per se, but I'm considering buying it to encourage them to rerelease more retro products.

Personally I'd like to see new printings of the 2e AD&D campaign settings. Maybe even system neutral adaptations of them.

...

Actually, most of what I want at this point are reprinted modules and campaign stuff. Ideally with new art though...

Hell, if they dont want to commit to doing a print run, do color PoD copies on dtrpg. It's apparently working out well for WhiteWolf.

I wouldn't mind if they cannibalized the art from 3e and 4e, so long as the art is art of the same thing. Use the 3e Monsters of Faerun Helmed Horror image instead of a 2e one. Use 3e and 4e drow images in the drow modules. etc.

 

[Man in the Funny Hat]

I think this strikes closer to the mark. If you're setting out to make the Grand Unified D&D and bring all the lovers of all the editions together under one banner, you don't want to leave out the old-school fans. And what better way to get their attention than by issuing a shiny new printing of their own chosen edition? No more scrounging on eBay for the dwindling supply of original copies! It also helps WotC gauge the amount of interest in the Old Way--not to mention building community goodwill generally.

Hmm... If the ultimate goal is to bring them under the new big tent then I doesn't strike me as a very brilliant and devious move to make it easier for them to stay under their own little old tent. I think WotC might be capable of being especially devious but I honestly and truly don't believe they getting this deep into second guessing the motives of gamers and manipulating them like Machiavelli. Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar, and all other things being equal the simplest explanation is usually the correct one. I think they published these at this time for simple and straight-forward reasons:

1) Players of 1E have been begging for this for a decade or more and are almost certainly the largest demographic of OSR.
2) By the trick of this being a limited/exclusive release only to your FLGS they don't have to guess at how many they can sell over the next X years and keep selling - they print a limted run, distribute it to stores and never have to see it again, and pocket the money.
3) If they have some means of monitoring how many get sold out of stores and how fast, then they get a one-shot of useful data on how much support there REALLY is for a) reprints of old stuff and b) a new set of game rules that hearken back to older approaches. Or at least they get a read on how many B&M retailers are still out there willing to grab stock like this and flog it.

Of course, I suspect a big part of it is simply that the people in charge at Wizards cut their teeth on 1E and still feel a lot of nostalgia and love for that edition, and would like to help memorialize the man who made it possible. Not everything is about business strategy, even for wholly-owned subsidiaries of Hasbro.

One of the simplest explanations and thus more likely to be correct.

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

Ehhh, I don't think the sales of a 1e reprint in this form will tell you anything much about interest in 1e. For one thing a limited print run is likely to just plain sell out regardless. People want to support the fund and aren't averse to getting something interesting and collectible out of it.

I doubt such a product is going to expose any significant number of people to 1e that haven't already got copies of the original or at least played it enough in the day that they're pretty much aware of what it is and how it works.

Seems to me it is just exactly what it seems like. Its a way to raise some money for a nice cause, doesn't require a whole lot of valuable designer bandwidth to put out, keeps some WotC products out there, and makes people feel good. It is just a no-lose kind of proposition and doesn't require any deeper explanation than that.

I'm also fairly dubious about the concept that 5e mechanics will be THAT closely tied to AD&D. I'd be more expecting a fairly modern core set of mechanics. More like "what would AD&D be like if it had been written today". You'll be able to play a game that is really strongly reminiscent of playing a game of AD&D, and a lot of the 'fluff' of the game will be drawn heavily from older editions, but not so much the details of the mechanics. There's not going to be a bunch of %-based thief skills, random arbitrary sized dice 'perception', etc. Just reading L&L makes that pretty clear. So there's not likely a huge value in showing people 1e mechanics. In fact it might really be better if people are NOT thinking too hard about 1e mechanics. Frankly the people who have to have exactly 1e mechanics are unlikely to buy anything that isn't 1e itself anyway, not 5e.

 

[thedungeondelver]

Ehhh, I don't think the sales of a 1e reprint in this form will tell you anything much about interest in 1e. For one thing a limited print run is likely to just plain sell out regardless. People want to support the fund and aren't averse to getting something interesting and collectible out of it.

There's "selling out" and there's "selling out". The TSR SILVER ANNIVERSARY boxed set "sold out" eventually. I bought mine in like 2003, four years after it was released. There are still unsold copies available through 3rd party resellers. Only 5000 were printed, IIRC. If WIZARDS OF THE COAST were watching that sales track, yeah, it'd be disappointing and indicative of nothing.

If, on the other hand, they blow through all or the vast majority of the print run in a couple of months, or a few months, or even a couple of quarters, then that is the indicator that "something" is afoot.

For my money, I hope that's the case.

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

There's "selling out" and there's "selling out". The TSR SILVER ANNIVERSARY boxed set "sold out" eventually. I bought mine in like 2003, four years after it was released. There are still unsold copies available through 3rd party resellers. Only 5000 were printed, IIRC. If WIZARDS OF THE COAST were watching that sales track, yeah, it'd be disappointing and indicative of nothing.

If, on the other hand, they blow through all or the vast majority of the print run in a couple of months, or a few months, or even a couple of quarters, then that is the indicator that "something" is afoot.

For my money, I hope that's the case.

The problem is you can't tell much from this WotC reprint. Are there a lot of people that wanted to contribute to the fund? Are there a lot of people that just like to collect stuff? Is it people that actually want to play the game? There's no way to tell. WotC can't even tell. Given that there hasn't been a real collectible in this space in a LONG time vs the old Silver Anniversary set that was one of many small print run D&D products at the time its going to be pretty hard to tell much from a very limited print run. The Silver Anniversary set was also not really all that exciting in and of itself. I have no idea what the new set is going to be like exactly, but at the price we'll assume it is a bit special at least.

 

[thedungeondelver]

The problem is you can't tell much from this WotC reprint. Are there a lot of people that wanted to contribute to the fund? Are there a lot of people that just like to collect stuff?

Who cares, though?

I'd certainly love it if each and every person who bought the reprinted AD&D books played the game and fell in love with it and played it to the exclusion of all other RPGs.

But here's the thing - if this sells out in days or weeks and everyone except me buys their copy to put on their shelf, to make pop art out of, to fold the pages into origami, to crumple up and wipe their butts with or use as kindling it doesn't matter because there's profit in it. TSR got a huge sales boost during the "satanic panic" days - some people bought the books to see what the hubbub was. Some people - fundies - bought them for the express purpose of burning them. (Yes.)

If there's a big enough profit in it, the things will be printed. You think Brittany Spears cares if you're buying her CDs to smash once you're outside Best Buy? Hell no! You spent your money, sucka!

It's cynical, but it's the truth. If people are clamoring for AD&D books, they're clamoring for them. Doesn't matter why. WOTC will see a demand, they will create a supply.

I have no idea what the new set is going to be like exactly, but at the price we'll assume it is a bit special at least.

It's the DUNGEON MASTERS GUIDE, MONSTER MANUAL and PLAYERS HANDBOOK with new cover art.

The price is in line with inflation, it is no different (based on inflation; I've discussed the per-capita cost in another thread) than the original prices, just for 2012 dollars.

 

[dagger]

Mike Mearls Interview at MTV

In late 2010 we started looking at the long term future for the tabletop RPG. Two things became apparent. First, we had a divided audience. Second, if we kept altering the core of 4th Edition, the division would only become more apparent.

Stuff like Castle Ravenloft had a big effect on our decision, as it showed that we could focus the tabletop RPG on its strengths rather than worrying about incorporating the latest trends in gaming. If board games, or whatever category is hot, can support a D&D game then we can just create a game to meet that need.

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

Who cares, though?

I'd certainly love it if each and every person who bought the reprinted AD&D books played the game and fell in love with it and played it to the exclusion of all other RPGs.

But here's the thing - if this sells out in days or weeks and everyone except me buys their copy to put on their shelf, to make pop art out of, to fold the pages into origami, to crumple up and wipe their butts with or use as kindling it doesn't matter because there's profit in it. TSR got a huge sales boost during the "satanic panic" days - some people bought the books to see what the hubbub was. Some people - fundies - bought them for the express purpose of burning them. (Yes.)

If there's a big enough profit in it, the things will be printed. You think Brittany Spears cares if you're buying her CDs to smash once you're outside Best Buy? Hell no! You spent your money, sucka!

It's cynical, but it's the truth. If people are clamoring for AD&D books, they're clamoring for them. Doesn't matter why. WOTC will see a demand, they will create a supply.

Yes, but that wasn't really what we were talking about. Selling a bunch of books to a collector community is telling you NOTHING about what the current generation of players want to PLAY. Just because your 5000 book run flies off the shelves like hotcakes is not generating any market intelligence about what 5e should look like. It might argue that you could make money selling various collector's edition products, sure, but that's not really closely related to all-new products and how they should be designed.

It's the DUNGEON MASTERS GUIDE, MONSTER MANUAL and PLAYERS HANDBOOK with new cover art.

The price is in line with inflation, it is no different (based on inflation; I've discussed the per-capita cost in another thread) than the original prices, just for 2012 dollars.

Yes, we know it is some sort of book(s) that presumably contains the text of the 1e books or it wouldn't be 1e books. We don't know what the layout is, how they're printed or bound, etc. I can think of a whole lot of different formats that could be used. Some of those might be more or less suitable or conducive to using the books at the table in play.

I have read the thread, yes. My point is that whether people USE the books heavily depends on why people buy them. This is probably dependent on the form factor and presentation. These books don't sound unreasonably expensive compared to your average RPG book. That still doesn't tell me a lot about form factor. It pretty much tells me nothing about what the people who buy them will use them for, which again is a significant factor when you think about what they tell you about the current RPG market.

 

[Umbran]

Who cares, though?

Well, if they are trying to use sales as a census, they care. In terms of potential sales of future items, folks wanting to buy books for nostalgia, or just to support the Fund, are a different beast from the ones who buy it because they really want to play.

But, I don't think it is a census. They're already including 1e player sensibilities in their announcements, and if play testing comes soon, those sensibilities are already part of the initial designs. They don't need to determine how many potential 1e players there are - they already plan to keep them in mind anyhow.

You are correct. There's profit to be gained. There's goodwill to be gained, and you know, for most of the folks in the RPG department, there's a memorial to be had, too!