[OOC] Quickleaf's Rime of the Frostmaiden [closed but waitlist is available]

[VLAD the Destroyer]

@Quickleaf Added my character to the RG. Just so you know I took a bag of holding (Actually his backpack) and +1 Scale Mail as my 2 infused items. I am still working on my background.

 

[Quickleaf]

Since I am taking the Pact Familiar, I need to know a few things.

From what I understand, RAW familiars can attune to their own magic items. I had an Imp who made liberal use of a Wand of Web, once. In the past, I’ve had DMs who gave me flack for this. Either they only allow one magic item to be attuned to a familiar, or they count any items attuned to the familiar against the number I can attune to. Your rules, I believe, change how Attunement works, but what about Attunements for Tim from Accounting?

Who’s Tim? Tim is an Imp. He’s from Hell’s accounting department. He’s here to help me not get dead before I do…whatever it is I’m supposed to do to uphold my end of the bargain. Tim is a being all on his own, even if I summoned him. So can Tim attune to his own magic items, or do I have to count those against my own?

I think given the PbP format with a large group – I think we're at 9 players – it's probably better that we avoid "heavily familiar-centric play." Obviously, use Tim the Imp to scout and do all the cool things. But I'd rather the growth of your character (both in power and story) be focused on your character, rather than blinging out Tim the Imp.

My preference would be no magic items attuned to the Imp.

This philosophy goes hand-in-hand with my streamlining rules for the conjure animal type spells. Basically, I want you to do the cool things. However, I don't want the familiar player or the conjurer player to end up running 2 character or 8 characters or whatever, because that starts to detract from the party (which is already substantial).

 

[Quickleaf]

Can I exchange shortbow from rogues default equipment with hand crossbow? Somehow it feels more gnomish

I'd say shortbow (25 gp, simple weapon) > hand crossbow (75 gp, martial weapon) is a substantial upgrade. Not opposed to the idea (it does fit a rock gnome better), but more gear would need to be "sacrificed" to make that an even trade.

Also, we roll HP per level? Given old-school feel...

Ah, as long as I can see the rolls, rolling is fine. Or taking the average rounded up like the PHB is fine.

Another option I like that's in between those two is the Worlds Without Numbers approach to Hit Points where every time you level up (say get 2nd level), you roll all your Hit Dice, and if the sum is greater than your previous hit point value, then that new sum becomes your HP. However, it it's lower than your current hit point value, you just gain 1 HP (plus CON mod). It gives a bit of that old school variability feel, but in the long run softens the impact of a really crappy Hit Point roll.

 

[Quickleaf]

I’ve got a couple comments about the spell changes.

I’m not usually a fan of outright banning things in the game. Obviously different DMs ban things all the time, but I’ve always taken the perspective that I’m the DM, if I wanted to bypass an ability, I can. Rocks fall, everyone dies, or I just send a third adult black dragon at them.

I noticed that Find Traps and Silvery Barbs were banned. I understand it sucks to have a character cast a spell to negate a perfectly good trap…but in that case, the trap served its purpose. To waste a resource. That’s a spell slot they don’t get back. Why not let the Cleric, who is the only person who can cast the spell, have a moment of “let me put everyone’s mind at ease regarding this room of the dun…oh, yeah, that room is definitely trapped.” The spell has limitations. You don’t know where the trap is, just that there is one. What’s the point of banning it?

Silvery Barbs, I sorta get. The spell is broken. Being able to negate an enemy attack or save is amazazing. But again, it does what’s intended: it wastes a resource. A bard with Silvery Barbs could very well use every spell slot they have on that spell in a single fight. Then they’re out of slots. Every slot the Wizard uses to negate a Crit is a slot they can’t use on Burning Flame, which can kill 6 Goblins in one casting if the damage roll is a 14 or higher whether they save or not!

Also, you changed Shield, and I disagree with that. It’s yet another way to use up resources. Reducing it to the triggering attacker makes the waste of the resource much less palpable. Every time you cast the spell, you have to weigh it against possibly casting Burning Hands later. Is saving me from this one hit worth one less Burning Hands? It’s much easier to stomach if you know you’ll at least be protected until you start your turn again.

I very much disagree with the changes to the Sleep spell, at least regarding it not affecting higher leveled creatures. The whole point is that you whittle down the enemy’s life and then cast Sleep to possibly end the confrontation. If you’re fighting creatures with 8 hit dice, you’re at the level where you could have just hit them for the amount of damage the Sleep spell would put them to sleep for, or close to it.

The rest of the changes are fine, and many are flaverful, but these changes in particular just seem like a DM who got stumped one too many times and decided to take his player’s toys away. I’m not a big fan of taking things away from the players. Silvery Barbs sucks for a DM, but players who can cast it feel AWESOME for stopping the bad guy from critting, and those moments are important for players. It makes them feel mighty. And isn’t that what this game is about?

Note, I can’t actually take the banned spells. Silvery Barbs isn’t on the list of Arcane Spells on the One Dnd playtest; and Find Traps is a Divine Spell. I’m just putting my two cents out there. Feel free to toss them right back.

Sure, I appreciate you raising objections and sharing your thoughts.

The 2 that I feel strongest about are Silvery Barbs & Shield. I don't think there's any argument that Silvery Barbs is broken. With Shield, I observe it being used by so many characters that it basically becomes the most desirable defense spell to the point of "why wouldn't I take it?" And I think that's to the detriment of the game if it becomes a caster's default reaction & it's being selected by players who otherwise wouldn't be interested in defensive magic "because it's just too good." Again, none of it's set in stone, but of the questions you raised, these are the 2 that I feel strongest about.

Find Traps. Eh. If you guys really want this spell in the game, I won't put up an argument. I just think it sucks for a bunch of reasons: (1) it steps on the rogue-type PCs toes, (2) it does very little for the caster ("somewhere within 120 feet that I can see is a trap"), (3) it requires the DM to adjudicate how line of sight works (the examples the spells gives are cut-and-dried, but I've had several where whether the trap's mechanism is "within line of site" is really ambiguous).

Sleep I had a very specific goal with hacking, but it's possible my goal doesn't match up with your goals. Anyhow, I'll explain my intent and experience with it, but ultimately I'm not going to put up an argument if you guys prefer the RAW Sleep spell. So RAW Sleep I see being used on either very very weak monsters (and it affects a veeeerrry small number of them), or it's used as an encounter-ender when a stronger monster is badly wounded, like you describe. For me, that's always been a creative dissonance, because when fantasy stories have heroes put monsters to sleep, it's typically to evade them not as a way to finish a swordfight. So my goal was to shape the narrative around the Sleep spell. The model is the AD&D Sleep spell, just scaled for 5e. I did playtest this one with my group – who was accustomed to the 5eD&D mode of "we'll sleep it to death once we get its hp low enough", and they actually really enjoyed the way my hack made Sleep more like what stories have it do – knocking out a large group of enemies or even one relatively potent enemy.

 

[tglassy]

Sure, I appreciate you raising objections and sharing your thoughts.

The 2 that I feel strongest about are Silvery Barbs & Shield. I don't think there's any argument that Silvery Barbs is broken. With Shield, I observe it being used by so many characters that it basically becomes the most desirable defense spell to the point of "why wouldn't I take it?" And I think that's to the detriment of the game if it becomes a caster's default reaction & it's being selected by players who otherwise wouldn't be interested in defensive magic "because it's just too good." Again, none of it's set in stone, but of the questions you raised, these are the 2 that I feel strongest about.

Find Traps. Eh. If you guys really want this spell in the game, I won't put up an argument. I just think it sucks for a bunch of reasons: (1) it steps on the rogue-type PCs toes, (2) it does very little for the caster ("somewhere within 120 feet that I can see is a trap"), (3) it requires the DM to adjudicate how line of sight works (the examples the spells gives are cut-and-dried, but I've had several where whether the trap's mechanism is "within line of site" is really ambiguous).

Sleep I had a very specific goal with hacking, but it's possible my goal doesn't match up with your goals. Anyhow, I'll explain my intent and experience with it, but ultimately I'm not going to put up an argument if you guys prefer the RAW Sleep spell. So RAW Sleep I see being used on either very very weak monsters (and it affects a veeeerrry small number of them), or it's used as an encounter-ender when a stronger monster is badly wounded, like you describe. For me, that's always been a creative dissonance, because when fantasy stories have heroes put monsters to sleep, it's typically to evade them not as a way to finish a swordfight. So my goal was to shape the narrative around the Sleep spell. The model is the AD&D Sleep spell, just scaled for 5e. I did playtest this one with my group – who was accustomed to the 5eD&D mode of "we'll sleep it to death once we get its hp low enough", and they actually really enjoyed the way my hack made Sleep more like what stories have it do – knocking out a large group of enemies or even one relatively potent enemy.

Thank you for your insight. I do like the change to Sleep to affect a number of hit dice rather than hit point. It always sucked to roll low and not be able to do much with it. I just personally like the idea of being able to use it to end a fight. It rarely gets used that way in my experience, most players are too focused on doing damage, or as an opening salvo to drop some minions first, but the few times it’s been used later in the fight it’s saved the day.

Silvery Barbs is broken af, but it’s also puts a check on Shield’s dominance as a reaction spell. There’s no need to have both, and Silvery Barbs can be used to help others. Shield becomes the go to if you’re going into melee, and SB is for the support character.

I have a player who takes it every chance he gets, and he pretty much saves it for either a Crit or a potentially lethal blow. He’s saved the party more than once with it, because one one PC goes down, a TPK is much more likely. So far, I don’t feel he’s abused it, but if I ever feel different, I’d just bring in aN enemy Spellcaster who also has the spell prepped. It’s also fun to ask the player what insult they said that triggered the spell.

But like I said, I can’t even take either spell. Neither are on the One Dnd list. I think they’re going to make Silvery Barbs a Bard only spell. And I don’t know if we have a Cleric, so Find Traps is moot. I think the spell is there because in 2e, Rogues we’re absolutely essential as the only class that could find and disarm traps, but what it no one wants to play a Rogue?

That said, I don’t believe in keeping one class from stepping on the toes of another. I hear that a lot. “Don’t give fighters hand to hand combat cause it steps on the monk’s toes”, “don’t let him be able to shapeshift into an animal cause that’s the Druid’s thing”, “Don’t let the cleric Find Traps cause the Rogue will be jealous”.

But what it no one picked that class? Do you just go without the ability? Rogues are GOOD at finding traps, but that doesn’t preclude anyone else from trying their hand at it, particularly in 5e, where finding and disarming traps are actually not Rogue abilities anymore.

I have a bad habit of making characters of one class behave like another. Warlocks, for example, with the Charlatan Background, the Actor Feat and Mask of Many Faces, are better infiltrators than Assassin Rogues. I had a high level Rogue Thief who got ahold of a Staff of Power and convinced everyone he was an Archmage. Even started his own Magic School and gave lectures, since he had expertise in Arcana. So much fun.

But anyway. Your game, so I’ll stop complaining. Just wanted to make my thoughts known.

 

[Quickleaf]

@Quickleaf Added my character to the RG. Just so you know I took a bag of holding (Actually his backpack) and +1 Scale Mail as my 2 infused items. I am still working on my background.

Logrim Romwod looks good, I just have a few clarifications/question.

1) I believe you rolled for Hit Points? Did you post those rolls and I missed it? For everyone: If you choose to roll for HP, could you post in this thread? Just so we all are on the same page, and so nothing slips through the cracks and appears that I'm playing favorites with anybody. Or if you did not post / don't have the rolls, could you either reroll using Coyote Code and post that (or take average)?

2) Because Logrim has a bag of holding there's a little exception to my Item Slot Encumbrance house rule, so you'll mostly be tracking pounds for "Packed Items" instead of Slots. However, I would like you to track Equipped Items (see my house rules - everyone gets 5 equipped item slots).

I believe your equipped items (i.e. items you can access in combat/action scenes without having to use an Action to search into your bag of holding) are...

Equipped Items (5/5): Scale Armor (medium armor = 2 slots), Thieves' Tools [spell focus] (1 slot), Mace (1 slot), Light Crossbow (1slot)

Is that right? If so, could you include that on your sheet?

Otherwise, Logrim is approved

 

[Quickleaf]

@Neurotic and @tglassy Your characters Lumrolur and Mak are next on my list to review.

Edit: Also, I've thought a bit more about adapting my house rules to the PbP format...

In the document, I've house ruled Inspiration such that everyone begins with Inspiration and every time you level up you recharge that one point of Inspiration. Simple. Also I've upgraded the base use from getting Advantage > Rerolling, and I've expanded the uses for Inspiration to lean a little more towards narrative type games...

• Reroll a failed attack, check, or save.
• Establish a NPC contact in a scene.
• Flashback to a planning scene which explains a slight change in inventory or spells prepared.
• Turn your hit into a “called shot” (propose what it does, GM can accept or refuse and it’s a critical hit).
• Interrupt initiative, if you haven’t taken turn yet.

That last bit about interrupting is really intended for face-to-face play, and doesn't translate well to PbP.

For Initiative, probably what I'll do is not have you all roll, but rather cluster you into groups with the same initiative bonus (e.g. all +0's might be the "slow" group). Then I'll intersperse monsters using a combo of a passive initiative score and a slight roll modifier (it won't be a normal d20 roll, probably a d8 where 1 = -4 and 8 = +4... tiebreakers always go to the PC...I know I did something like this in past PbPs and it worked well).

The gist is that I want to keep things moving as smoothly as possible without a sudden bog down before a combat/action scene while you wait for the other 8 players to roll initiative.

And having the consistency of the order you all act in & who is in the same "initiative cluster" as you may help in terms of devising your strategies.

 

[tglassy]

It doesn’t look like it recorded my equipment. I know I put it in there. In the playtest is says take 100 gold or a list of equipment, so I took the 100 gold and bought Scale Mail, a Rod and I wanted an Explorer’s pack. Along with Warm Weather Clothes, that should be all I can carry. I’d have my armor and rod equipped, and the rest in the pack.

 

[VLAD the Destroyer]

Logrim Romwod looks good, I just have a few clarifications/question.

1) I believe you rolled for Hit Points? Did you post those rolls and I missed it? For everyone: If you choose to roll for HP, could you post in this thread? Just so we all are on the same page, and so nothing slips through the cracks and appears that I'm playing favorites with anybody. Or if you did not post / don't have the rolls, could you either reroll using Coyote Code and post that (or take average)?

2) Because Logrim has a bag of holding there's a little exception to my Item Slot Encumbrance house rule, so you'll mostly be tracking pounds for "Packed Items" instead of Slots. However, I would like you to track Equipped Items (see my house rules - everyone gets 5 equipped item slots).

I believe your equipped items (i.e. items you can access in combat/action scenes without having to use an Action to search into your bag of holding) are...

Equipped Items (5/5): Scale Armor (medium armor = 2 slots), Thieves' Tools [spell focus] (1 slot), Mace (1 slot), Light Crossbow (1slot)

Is that right? If so, could you include that on your sheet?

Otherwise, Logrim is approved

I completely forgot about hit points. I'll get the rolls up tomorrow morning. I'll also update the sheet with the slots as noted.

 

[Quickleaf]

@tglassy and @Necropolitan I just wanted to offer a quick glance comparison of your warlocks, since you're both playing Playtest Fiend Warlocks with the same Invocations, I think the mechanical differences will come down to the familiar & your spell selection...

Zeth
Pact of the Tome
agonizing blast & devil’s sight
Cantrips: eldritch blast, mage hand, mind sliver, prestidigitation, sacred flame
Spells: burning hands, command, hellish rebuke, hex, identify, tenser’s floating disk

Mak
Pact of the Chain
agonizing blast & devil’s sight
Cantrips: eldritch blast, prestidigitation, mending, pact familiar
Spells: armor of agathys, hex, burning hands command, comprehend languages, shield, sleep

And for the spells @tglassy, I'm going to hold my ground on my Silvery Barbs & Shield house rule, but you can use either version of Sleep (PHB or my house rule) you prefer, and even change between them when you prepare spells if you want to try it out. And if anyone plays Cleric, Druid, or Ranger, and wants Find Traps, then we can use it.