[OOC] Quickleaf's Rime of the Frostmaiden [closed but waitlist is available]

[Necropolitan]

For the outlander benefit, I don’t think it matters much, given that my character can cast goodberry. I however don’t want to nerf the feel of your adventure, so you could just add a “ressource availability” factor to that second benefit. For example, in a forest during the summer, the number of people could be 6 x 1, and in a a tundra during the summer it could be 6 /3, and on the ice (assuming winter) it could be 6 /6 (only able to sustain himself).
So maybe 6 /3 for winter, 6 /2 for spring, baseline 6 for summer and maybe 6 x1.5 for fall (harvests). And a second factor for latitude. Being very high up north could be /3. Just ideas, but I think the concept could work and address concerns.

I think something like that could work. Anyone else want to sound off?

Maybe change it to a bonus on checks relating to feeding people in the wilderness and increasing the maximum amount of food that can be gained from those checks? So if it involves hunting, foraging, butchering animals in the wild, etc. there'd be a bonus to it.

That way it won't replace having to find food but it will make it easier.

 

[Kobold Stew]

Just joining in to say hi to all and get on the thread for update notification.

Hello all!

I think something like that could work. Anyone else want to sound off?

As I've said separately, I'm building a "Messenger" off of the Outlander background, but without the foraging. We can all make do, and I don't think we need to have the guarantee if you don't want it in the game.

 

[Quickleaf]

@tglassy Btw, I was holding off on posting about the gambling game with Aethmud (Jack the fairy) in case you wanted to join in?

Maybe change it to a bonus on checks relating to feeding people in the wilderness and increasing the maximum amount of food that can be gained from those checks? So if it involves hunting, foraging, butchering animals in the wild, etc. there'd be a bonus to it.

That way it won't replace having to find food but it will make it easier.

That could work too. Do you have a preference so far @Steve Gorak ?

Just joining in to say hi to all and get on the thread for update notification.

Hello all!

As I've said separately, I'm building a "Messenger" off of the Outlander background, but without the foraging. We can all make do, and I don't think we need to have the guarantee if you don't want it in the game.

Hey, glad you made it!

Party is still at the Northlook taproom doing shenanigans and getting more info from NPCs. Do you have an idea already for how you'd like to introduce Corse? Or are you looking for suggestions?

 

[happylace]

I'm fine with ruling Outlander either way. I know survival is a big theme of this adventure so I'd understand if people don't wanna miss out on that but I personally don't have strong feelings one way or another about that aspect of the game.

 

[Steve Gorak]

FYI, my character's up in the RG. I really love the generative AI image websites for character pics! ;-)

Please let me know if I missed anything. I'll be thinking about spell selection, so those in the character sheet are subject to change.

Question for you @Quickleaf :

• The shape water cantrip works on snow, right (i.e. snow is water)? I'm assuming that five foot square of snow gives half as much ice, ok? So assuming the spell can move snow, can it move snow to make it denser into ice (i.e. moving the flakes closer together)? I'm also assuming it can move ice, can you please confirm?
• Do you have recommendations for the extra language granted by outlander?
• Is the secret ok? I felt it went nicely with the backstory. If not, I liked the Yeti one, and also the owlbear one.
• What is the halfling trader's name? I left it generic in my character's backstory. This could be a great way to get accepted by the group after spying on the conversation ;-)

That could work too. Do you have a preference so far @Steve Gorak ?

I'm completely open to either alternative. Whatever you are comfortable with @Quickleaf

Cheers!

SG

 

[Quickleaf]

FYI, my character's up in the RG. I really love the generative AI image websites for character pics! ;-)

Yeah, the occasional AI art distortions actually worked out in your favor. Aric's backstory is classic.

The name of his murdered halfling friend is Morin Littlebucket; he has a surviving sister in Lonelywood.

Yes, your secret is good.

For your other language, I have a couple recommendations: Reghedic (spoken by the four human Reghed tribes), Winter Wolf, or Yeti feel like they'd fit.

Please let me know if I missed anything. I'll be thinking about spell selection, so those in the character sheet are subject to change.

Only 2 things stood out as needing attention, otherwise looks good!

1. Proficiencies. Because I have a bigger list of skills in my house rules, the druid (like the other classes) starts with an extra skill, so you should have one more skill proficiency from your class list (which is also expanded in my house rules). Also, I've subsumed tools into skills – so your herbalism kit? That's subsumed by Nature. So, as a druid, instead of getting automatic proficiency in herbalism kit, you get automatic proficiency in Nature (which in my house rules includes using an herbalism kit).

2. Your equipment looks funky, but it's hard for me to understand what's happening there to troubleshoot. How did you do your equipment?

Question for you @Quickleaf :

• The shape water cantrip works on snow, right (i.e. snow is water)? I'm assuming that five foot square of snow gives half as much ice, ok? So assuming the spell can move snow, can it move snow to make it denser into ice (i.e. moving the flakes closer together)? I'm also assuming it can move ice, can you please confirm?

Starting with the hard questions. So even leaving out the snow question, shape water has grey area the GM needs to adjudicate. For example, freezing over a fishing hole in the ice? Yeah, I would say that would work. Now what if an enemy has been pushed into that hole? Yeah, I would still say it works cause it's freezing the surface. These sorts of corner cases will arise in play, and we'll need to figure them out on the fly.

Snow is water scientifically, but it's not in common parlance. For example, snow doesn't "flow" in the usual sense that water flows, unless it's unique conditions (like an avalanche or a snowdrift). So, moving snow out in the tundra? No, I would say that isn't possible. But directing a bit of already moving snow during a snowdrift or using it to try to escape/survive an avalanche? Yeah, I would say that's possible.

Then the freezing snow question. For me, that's a "yes, but." The "but" part being still can't freeze snow with creatures in it (e.g. no restraining their legs embedded in snow by freezing them in place). That would be exceeding the cantrip's intent and power. But making a section of snow slippery ice? Yeah that would be possible. Freezing the snow in a pine tree to drop it 30 feet on an enemy below? I'd probably tone down the damage to be consistent with a low-damage cantrip, so something like 1d6 bludgeoning/tier (normal cantrip damage scaling). That's what I mean by having to make situational calls. Can't predict all your shenanigans.

I'm completely open to either alternative. Whatever you are comfortable with @Quickleaf

OK, let me think on it. Open to others' thoughts on the "wanderer" feature for Outlander in the meantime.

EDIT: Oh! Good call on jotting down your wild shapes. There are two variations/improvements we can say Aric hasn't encountered yet: Polar Bears (brown bear with swim speed) and Ice Spiders (giant spiders with a few changes). When you encounter those, you can enhance the brown bear & giant spider forms.

 

[Necropolitan]

I really love the generative AI image websites for character pics! ;-)

What do you use? I've been looking for good free ones.

 

[Steve Gorak]

Yeah, the occasional AI art distortions actually worked out in your favor. Aric's backstory is classic.

The name of his murdered halfling friend is Morin Littlebucket; he has a surviving sister in Lonelywood.

Yes, your secret is good.

For your other language, I have a couple recommendations: Reghedic (spoken by the four human Reghed tribes), Winter Wolf, or Yeti feel like they'd fit.

Cool, thanks! I think I'll go with go with Reghedic. But to be sure, what is Winter wolf? Is this an intelligent animal language, or is this a tribe called the Winter Wolves?

Only 2 things stood out as needing attention, otherwise looks good!

1. Proficiencies. Because I have a bigger list of skills in my house rules, the druid (like the other classes) starts with an extra skill, so you should have one more skill proficiency from your class list (which is also expanded in my house rules). Also, I've subsumed tools into skills – so your herbalism kit? That's subsumed by Nature. So, as a druid, instead of getting automatic proficiency in herbalism kit, you get automatic proficiency in Nature (which in my house rules includes using an herbalism kit).

Cool, I'll kill the herbalism kit and swap it to Nature. The int penalty will hurt but I like the idea of a druid actually knowing Nature ;-)
I swapped the musical instrument tool from outlander for leather worker's tools (felt it made more sense but my character doesn;t actually have the tools - just the knowledge). If ok, which skill would that be?

2. Your equipment looks funky, but it's hard for me to understand what's happening there to troubleshoot. How did you do your equipment?

The accounting is in the "money" spoiler block: It's baseline equipment, but I removed some items to get studded leather. Here are the details (also in the spoiler block): - means removed (so positive gp) and + means purchased (negative gp)
Additional equipment purchased: sling 1 sp
Sling bullets (40) 8 cp 3 lb.

Accounting: - scimitar from druid(+25 gp), - leather armor from druid (+10 gp) – starting gold from background (+10 gp) + studded leather (-45gp) – hunting trap from background (+3.75 gp), + sling & bullets additional equipment purchased (-0.18 gp) - staff from background (+ 2sp)

Starting with the hard questions. So even leaving out the snow question, shape water has grey area the GM needs to adjudicate. For example, freezing over a fishing hole in the ice? Yeah, I would say that would work. Now what if an enemy has been pushed into that hole? Yeah, I would still say it works cause it's freezing the surface. These sorts of corner cases will arise in play, and we'll need to figure them out on the fly.

FYI, the spell description says you can't freeze the water if a creature is in it.

Snow is water scientifically, but it's not in common parlance. For example, snow doesn't "flow" in the usual sense that water flows, unless it's unique conditions (like an avalanche or a snowdrift). So, moving snow out in the tundra? No, I would say that isn't possible. But directing a bit of already moving snow during a snowdrift or using it to try to escape/survive an avalanche? Yeah, I would say that's possible.

So I should replace "water" in the spell description to "liquid water" right?

Then the freezing snow question. For me, that's a "yes, but." The "but" part being still can't freeze snow with creatures in it (e.g. no restraining their legs embedded in snow by freezing them in place). That would be exceeding the cantrip's intent and power. But making a section of snow slippery ice? Yeah that would be possible. Freezing the snow in a pine tree to drop it 30 feet on an enemy below? I'd probably tone down the damage to be consistent with a low-damage cantrip, so something like 1d6 bludgeoning/tier (normal cantrip damage scaling). That's what I mean by having to make situational calls. Can't predict all your shenanigans.

hmmm, it's hard to conceive shenanigans without knowing your boundaries for this spell ;-)

So you understand where I'm coming from, since snow is already frozen water, you can't "freeze" it, just densify it to make ice (push it together, hence the notion of moving the snow). I would use the spell mostly for utility (although I like the idea of falling ice on enemies, and I agree that the damage needs to be on par with other cantrips, with a dex save or spell attack roll, your call). So here are some scenarios for your evaluation

• So is it a clear no to move snow or ice 5ft (first bullet in the spell description) - only "liquid water" can be moved this way? The first bullet says: You instantaneously move or otherwise change the flow of the water as you direct, up to 5 feet in any direction. This movement doesn’t have enough force to cause damage.
• How about the other bullets in the spell description:
  • Can the spell create simple shapes of snow or ice that can be animated? (You cause the water to form into simple shapes and animate at your direction. This change lasts for 1 hour.)
  • Can the spell change the opacity or color of ice or snow? (You change the water’s color or opacity. The water must be changed in the same way throughout. This change lasts for 1 hour.)
• Densifying snow to ice is ok, right? Is this movement (i.e. squeezing the snow together)?
• Can you de densify ice to snow? Not sure when this could be used but still checking. This is clearly outside the spell's description, so I imagine it's on par as thawing snow, so likely no

Practical example:
Could the spell clear out accumulated snow in front of a cave entrance? ( move 5 ft cubes repeatedly)
Could the spell allow moving snow to create a small ice barrier (move 5 foot cube of snow to make a barrier of ice for cover?
With enough castings, could one make an igloo if enough snow is available?
How about an ice igloo?
Could one make a fishing hole in a frozen lake to fish or other (i.e make a hole behind an enemy to push them)?
Could one move snow to hide tracks as one is walking?

OK, let me think on it. Open to others' thoughts on the "wanderer" feature for Outlander in the meantime.

EDIT: Oh! Good call on jotting down your wild shapes. There are two variations/improvements we can say Aric hasn't encountered yet: Polar Bears (brown bear with swim speed) and Ice Spiders (giant spiders with a few changes). When you encounter those, you can enhance the brown bear & giant spider forms.

Awesome!

Thanks and cheers,

SG

 

[Steve Gorak]

What do you use? I've been looking for good free ones.

I used Gencraft.
I can't wait till tomorrow to upload pics of my girls and make them look like princesses (I of course exceeded my free limit for today ;-)
Have fun (I did)!
Cheers,

SG

 

[Quickleaf]

Cool, thanks! I think I'll go with go with Reghedic. But to be sure, what is Winter wolf? Is this an intelligent animal language, or is this a tribe called the Winter Wolves?

Winter Wolf is one of those rare languages in D&D that's spoken by Winter Wolves (a frost-breathing evil dire wolf that's pretty cunning).

Cool, I'll kill the herbalism kit and swap it to Nature. The int penalty will hurt but I like the idea of a druid actually knowing Nature ;-)
I swapped the musical instrument tool from outlander for leather worker's tools (felt it made more sense but my character doesn;t actually have the tools - just the knowledge). If ok, which skill would that be?

Craft (leather worker's tools). Same same.

The accounting is in the "money" spoiler block: It's baseline equipment, but I removed some items to get studded leather. Here are the details (also in the spoiler block): - means removed (so positive gp) and + means purchased (negative gp)

OK, that's my confusion. For "baseline" gear there's two choices: Either (A) use the gear packages from Druid & your Outlander background, or (B) use the druid starting gold 2d4x10 (average 50 gp) to buy everything from scratch.

I think what you're saying is you went with option (A), but you're swapping some stuff around?

FYI, the spell description says you can't freeze the water if a creature is in it.

So I should replace "water" in the spell description to "liquid water" right?

hmmm, it's hard to conceive shenanigans without knowing your boundaries for this spell ;-)

Ok, so I'm very comfortable in the grey areas of the game. For instance, all of what I just posted was not saying "replace 'water' with "liquid water"; instead, I was getting into nuance, design intent, and player intent. I'm comfortable doing that.

If you're not comfortable with that, and you prefer a more hard-coded unambiguous "letter of the spell" approach, in that case going with "replace 'water' with liquid water" is totally fine.

I was trying to thread a needle and give you some more utility with the cantrip in a snowy environment.

I'll delve into these questions next, but we have a style clash here. I'm not the "letter of the spell rules-lawyer, cover every corner case in painstaking detail" GM. That's another GM, but it's not me.

So, I think that's critical to convey to you and everyone. I thought it was clear in the GM bio I posted in my original post, but I want to be abundantly transparent about this.

For me as GM, I'm more interested in your intent with the spell than perfectly sculpting the language of spell to try and account for all circumstances. That's why trying to answer your questions devoid of context or understanding your intent is hard for me.