(OOC) Scourge of Daggerford (Full)

[FitzTheRuke]

I think there might be a bit of confusion when it comes to the rarely-used Chase rules. They discovered, quite rightly, that using the combat mechanics (like speeds and bonus action dashes and that sort of thing) to be very boring narratively.

Frankly, we could just do the math as to when and where Tommi would catch up to Lionel - under the combat rules, it's inevitable. It's impossible for Lionel to get away from Tommi, and impossible for anyone else in the party to ever catch him, based on the rogue's cunning action.

On top of that, if you break a chase into combat rounds, you have that weird thing where someone who's behind, can pass someone else if their turn comes up first, and then be passed by the other person, back-and-forth.

In the chase rules, combat abilities still count, but they're slightly more "fluff" - they might give you advantage on checks, for example.

Now, I'm not sure that I think that the chase rules are particularly good - they're a pretty loose framework, and I don't like how RAW they cause an unusually high amount of Exhaustion for something that takes place over a few minutes' time. (We'll probably ignore that part).

I'll try to interpret what you've all posted for "Chase Round 1" with this in mind, and narrate the results as soon as I get a chance. Bear with me, I'm already out of time this morning.

 

[TaranTheWanderer]

I think there might be a bit of confusion when it comes to the rarely-used Chase rules. They discovered, quite rightly, that using the combat mechanics (like speeds and bonus action dashes and that sort of thing) to be very boring narratively.

Frankly, we could just do the math as to when and where Tommi would catch up to Lionel - under the combat rules, it's inevitable. It's impossible for Lionel to get away from Tommi, and impossible for anyone else in the party to ever catch him, based on the rogue's cunning action.

On top of that, if you break a chase into combat rounds, you have that weird thing where someone who's behind, can pass someone else if their turn comes up first, and then be passed by the other person, back-and-forth.

In the chase rules, combat abilities still count, but they're slightly more "fluff" - they might give you advantage on checks, for example.

Now, I'm not sure that I think that the chase rules are particularly good - they're a pretty loose framework, and I don't like how RAW they cause an unusually high amount of Exhaustion for something that takes place over a few minutes' time. (We'll probably ignore that part).

I'll try to interpret what you've all posted for "Chase Round 1" with this in mind, and narrate the results as soon as I get a chance. Bear with me, I'm already out of time this morning.

Are we going to do Cat and Mouse?

 

[FitzTheRuke]

If no one's particularly interested and we all want to just move on, we could simply have Tommi and Lionel roll-off. I'd like to have it be possible for him to escape, but not inevitable, so some sort of rolling ought to be involved. I'm honestly open to suggestions.

 

[TaranTheWanderer]

If no one's particularly interested and we all want to just move on, we could simply have Tommi and Lionel roll-off. I'd like to have it be possible for him to escape, but not inevitable, so some sort of rolling ought to be involved. I'm honestly open to suggestions.

I usually do it as a cat and Mouse.

3 appropriate skill rolls. Best 2 out of 3. Could be any appropriate skill

Athletics vs athletics (to represent a foot race)
Or athletics vs acrobatics (maybe someone tried to grab him)
Perception vs stealth (is trying to keep an eye on which direction he’s going)
Arcana vs An appropriate skill depending on the fluff of a spell cast

You could have 3 different pursuers make a roll each

But might be too hard to coordinate with pbp.

Side note: metavoid had cast Hold Person. Did that happen?

 

[Kobold Stew]

I am happy with anything, really. I don't want this to be all Tommi-focussed, and I find it funny that here Tommi actually is running off on his own (as opposed to the other times when he wasn't).

For Tommi, he is concerned about his childhood friend. If he stops him, great. If not, it adds to the overall complexity of the story. If there's a larger reason for him to get away, that's great too; no worries.

For me as a player, my priority is the group going forward in the story together. Tommi had a very bad Athletics roll, despite his expertise, and maybe just that is enough for Lionel to get away in the meanderings of the underground. Plus, Lionel can fit places Tommi can't. I am not concerned that the rules aren't working if the DM decides Lionel flees.

I hope this is helpful.

 

[TaranTheWanderer]

I'm also ok if you handwaive this.

 

[FitzTheRuke]

It was never my intention to let this game stall out, so I'm going to push things forward. I was recently rereading the beginning of this game (Wow, there was some great stuff!) because I'm going to run a version of it for the customers of my game store, and I was taking notes on characters and situations that I made up that aren't in the adventure material.

And I found a way that I ran a sort-of "skill challenge" that I really like. I'll use it to get this chase done. I'd wanted to use the actual 2014 Chase Rules for it, but I find that I not only don't like them, but I don't really understand them either. (Hopefully the 2024 DMG will include something like, but better done. We'll have to see).

I called it a "3-Segment Challenge", which is similar to other, more recent, and surprisingly less developed ideas I've used, where I've called it, variously, a "3-Check Challenge" or a "3-Round Challenge". They're all very similar, but I honestly think that while I like the NAME, "3-Round Challenge" best, I like the METHOD of the much older "3-Segment Challenge" that I used early on in this game.

Here's how it works. Each Round (or Segment) represents a different narrative piece of the Challenge, and you can plug whatever you want into it. Each round, the players roll Ability Checks based on what they are trying to do to achieve that segment's goals, and at the end of the Third Round, the DM adds up the total number of successes and checks it against a number of successes that they determined ahead of time would result in overall success, and narrates accordingly.

Yes, this means that you can never "win" before the end of Round Three, but the rounds are NOT the equivalent of combat rounds, and can be differing lengths based on the needs of the story (they don't need to be the same length as each other, which is one of the reasons that I called it Segments, rather than Rounds. Perhaps the ideal name would be "3-TURN challenge" because each player gets three turns to be involved? I think I will go with that. (I'm thinking out loud and if you have little-to-no-interest in this, feel free to ignore me) - speaking of which!

It is possible (perhaps even likely) that a Player might choose to opt-out of the challenge entirely, or choose to do something that might be interesting, but doesn't really have much to do with the challenge itself. That's okay! While I imagine that the set number of successes would ought to be set regardless of the number of participants (rather than float based on party size) - meaning that more PCs would generally mean that there is more chance of success. (I think that it's fair to say that there are few situations where more hands wouldn't be useful, except in the kitchen, and even then...) I think that it works.

Example! THIS CHALLENGE.

This challenge can be defined as "Catch Lionel before he escapes with whatever he stole from the Altar".

We've already done Turn One (for the most part). Turn One is "Figure out what's going on". I'll narrate the results of Turn One in the IC in a moment. Then we'll move on to Turn Two: "Keep up with and keep track of Lionel as he tries to escape the Lodge". Then Turn Three will be "Catch Lionel before he escapes into the Forest". After which, if you fail, it will be too late. You could choose to track him, and we'll move to another sort of challenge, but he'll be gone for the time being if he gets that far. So... you'll want to try to stop him. (I think. If your character doesn't care, well, feel free to do something else).

If you don't like the above, feel free to let me know, but we'll go with it for now so that we can keep moving forward. If you have comments, or suggestions, feel free to let me know here, or privately, or whatever you choose.

 

[Kobold Stew]

I'm happy to proceed this way, but seeing the turns planned (out of the basement/out of the lodge/out of the forest), I don't think Tommi is going to try to rush ahead, even for Lionel. Knowing that's the three turns in this challenge, I think Tommi (who does not run ahead and abandon the group foolishly; like, ever) is going to do so here. My instinct says that he would stay with the group; he's certainly not going to leave the house. without a plan to do so. (He doesn't know what's been stolen, and so that isn't a motivator for him.

Saying this, I'm not trying to derail the skill challenge. I just don't think Tommi is prepared to pursue this (with whatever results may follow as a result.). So I will now post my turn 2, with this framing in mind. If anyone urges Tommi to continue the chase, he will do so (or if at the end we see him running out of the house and into the forest, and someone says so), but with what we know Tommi isn't even certain that Lionel has gone upstairs, and it's the basement that's a danger.

 

[FitzTheRuke]

I'm happy to proceed this way, but seeing the turns planned (out of the basement/out of the lodge/out of the forest)

It's more (out of sight, out of the basement, out of the lodge) because if he reaches the forest, it's over. (For now at least).

 

[FitzTheRuke]

And I'm happy with anything you want to try that contributes to the challenge - or to put it another way, RUNNING is only part of the challenge (and so obvious a part, that I feel like it's the LEAST important thing to do; something to fall back on if you can't think of anything else). Something like what you came up with is Better, IMO. (Other than the flaw that I mention in my response post - but even that could potentially be spun to your advantage if, for example, you could know for sure that he might not act at all like Lionel, then your check (which suggests that you know very well what Lionel would do) then you could look to the opposite.

I think that it might depend on what the others do (as I try often to happen, to encourage teamwork). So for now, while Tommi's check is clearly NOT a "Failure", it's not a success - yet - either.