[OOC] The Endless Falls Character Discussion Thread
- Thread starter Ferrix
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I don't believe a line by line comparison of characters is meaningful. I would submit that there are three areas where we should compare characters. Those being Offense, Defense and Non-Combat. For the time being I will only be comparing the 5 active characters (Rahveon, Solarian, Arion, Sigrun and Caria)
Offense:
You will note that I give casters a lot of respect, that is because they deserve a lot of respect, they can dish out tremendous amounts of damage very quickly
1. Sigrun: Summoning Hordes of extremely powerful constructs in addition to a full range of psionic abilities, make the Arcitect the heavy hitter of our little cadre.
2. Caria: Lesser summoning abilities than Sigrun, but still impressive none the less. I feel Solarian and Caria are very close, but Loudbark I think pushes her over.
3. Solarian: Competent Melee combatant with a wide mixture of quickened spells. Solarian can get offensive very quickly.
4. Rahveon: Against something not immune to criticals, Rahveon is very dangerous. Otherwise he hits very hard.
5. Arion: No slouch in combat, only getting 3 attacks hurts, but arcane strike and a massive amount of Con damage can rapidly change the situation.
Defense:
1. Solarian: High AC, Spell Resistance, Host of Immunities, best saves in the group, no doubt who has the best defenses.
2. Rahveon: Saves + Hit Points
3. Arion: Not being seen is a very potent defense + high AC
4. Caria: With a high Spell Resistance I would rate her higher, but like Loudbark adding to her offense, he can be a liability in her defense
5. Sigrun: As powerful as Sigrun is offensively, he suffers from it defensively, he has a host of abilities which will increase his defenses, but they leave him hampered with his offense. Low AC and Low hit points, even in the best of circumstances, can leave you exposed.
Non-Combat:
1. Arion: Massive skills + bardic knowledge
2. Caria: A massive array of spells, almost on the same footing as Solarian, but the floating 500xp really helps
3. Solarian: Same Reason as Caria, divine spell casters get a massive array of spells.
4. Sigrun: Not to say he isn't useful outside of combat, he has a host of very useful abilities, but the psions weakness is the lack of breadth in their abilities.
5. Rahveon: A few items, no real appreciable skills, Rahveon sits at the bottom of this catagory.
Offense:
You will note that I give casters a lot of respect, that is because they deserve a lot of respect, they can dish out tremendous amounts of damage very quickly
1. Sigrun: Summoning Hordes of extremely powerful constructs in addition to a full range of psionic abilities, make the Arcitect the heavy hitter of our little cadre.
2. Caria: Lesser summoning abilities than Sigrun, but still impressive none the less. I feel Solarian and Caria are very close, but Loudbark I think pushes her over.
3. Solarian: Competent Melee combatant with a wide mixture of quickened spells. Solarian can get offensive very quickly.
4. Rahveon: Against something not immune to criticals, Rahveon is very dangerous. Otherwise he hits very hard.
5. Arion: No slouch in combat, only getting 3 attacks hurts, but arcane strike and a massive amount of Con damage can rapidly change the situation.
Defense:
1. Solarian: High AC, Spell Resistance, Host of Immunities, best saves in the group, no doubt who has the best defenses.
2. Rahveon: Saves + Hit Points
3. Arion: Not being seen is a very potent defense + high AC
4. Caria: With a high Spell Resistance I would rate her higher, but like Loudbark adding to her offense, he can be a liability in her defense
5. Sigrun: As powerful as Sigrun is offensively, he suffers from it defensively, he has a host of abilities which will increase his defenses, but they leave him hampered with his offense. Low AC and Low hit points, even in the best of circumstances, can leave you exposed.
Non-Combat:
1. Arion: Massive skills + bardic knowledge
2. Caria: A massive array of spells, almost on the same footing as Solarian, but the floating 500xp really helps
3. Solarian: Same Reason as Caria, divine spell casters get a massive array of spells.
4. Sigrun: Not to say he isn't useful outside of combat, he has a host of very useful abilities, but the psions weakness is the lack of breadth in their abilities.
5. Rahveon: A few items, no real appreciable skills, Rahveon sits at the bottom of this catagory.
The reason I did a line by line comparison was not in relation to the characters abilities, but rather in the relation of where the players put the characters money. Which is a very different thing, although it plays into the characters ability. I think Kelleris' analysis is one way to approach it, and yours another. A by the numbers approach as Kelleris' has done is good for supporting Wrahn's more descriptive analysis.
Also, like any "caster" Sigrun is not so great defensively unless he has a few rounds to prepare, in which case he's got more than enough to keep him going. Particularly if he has time to create an astral construct (not summoning exactly) and use his assume construct feat in conjunction to encase himself within it for his own protection and some good melee power.
More comments later.
Also, like any "caster" Sigrun is not so great defensively unless he has a few rounds to prepare, in which case he's got more than enough to keep him going. Particularly if he has time to create an astral construct (not summoning exactly) and use his assume construct feat in conjunction to encase himself within it for his own protection and some good melee power.
More comments later.
Actually it depends on your Dex and Wisdom, On Rahveon it gave him one Armor class, but was overall less expensive and it seems cooler that he is unarmored finesse fighter than a heavily armored trudge through it kind of fighter. Either would be okay, but I like the lightly armored one better.
And about the Monk's Belt, I agree it is very cheap for what it does. I read it up and down but the only conclusion I came to was that was what they meant.
For Solarion, however, wow, that made his AC go through the roof.
And about the Monk's Belt, I agree it is very cheap for what it does. I read it up and down but the only conclusion I came to was that was what they meant.
For Solarion, however, wow, that made his AC go through the roof.
Another thing to consider, in PbP game, generally speaking combats take a long time, Epic only makes it worse. I am imagining that combat is going to be rare (I hope so for Isida's sake). That mean the Non-Combat stuff is probably going to be more relevant than the combat stuff.
I was not trying to weigh anything as being more important than the others, but that is my general assessment of it. (Which might lead on to ask, why did you build a combat monster character, to which I can only respond, that is what I like. Big, strong tough characters)
I was not trying to weigh anything as being more important than the others, but that is my general assessment of it. (Which might lead on to ask, why did you build a combat monster character, to which I can only respond, that is what I like. Big, strong tough characters)
Kelleris
Explorer
Actually, I was doing my line-by-line thing as a prelude to doing exactly what you did, Wrahn. I agree with your assessment of bardic spellcasting as probably being at 2/3 per level, though. Should I go ahead and finish up the breakdown I started, everyone?
Wrahn - Interesting look at the characters. Some comments:
I think Solarion is the better offense character, over Caira. Loudbark is useful for tactical support, but I just don't seem him doing much more than a high-level summon spell in pure offense. He's also something of a liability in that he needs to be put into a melee situation where he can contribute, but not be the brunt of attention.
And, actually, I would put Rahveon over Caira as well. The combination of Devastating/Overwhelming Critical is ridiculously lethal, since your strength is so high. Also, saves are, at this level, a major part of getting something done even in melee; most wizards and most powerful monsters have some kind of blanket attack that quickly deals with messes of weak characters. Extremely good saves make those not an issue, so while Caira's creatures and Sigrun's constructs are getting pulverized by the dragon's breath weapon, you and Solarion will just be glad they're using weaker area attacks instead of concentrating on you. Perhaps it would be different if it was a look at a series of one-person "parties", but I think in the context of the party Rahveon and Solarion will be more effective than otherwise.
Also, I would put Sigrun in the 3rd-place non-combat slot. His skills are actually quite decent, including a good number of knowleges, one of which is higher than my bardic knowledge check. Additionally, psions have the advantage in spell conditions; he can cast in uncomfortable situations, or when talking to someone, for instance. Additionally, two catsers with full divine are largely redundant; generally it is only the better of the two that will be in a really good position to do their thing. Also, Solarion's usual spell list is so focused on hurtin' people that I don't see him putting much utility there unless we already know we'll need it.
Speaking of which, I assume those "open" slots are for OneAboveAll to fill in, and not simply slots that haven't been prepared yet? Divine casters have one time of day (dawn, I assume, for this guy) that they prepare their spells, and that's it. They can't do the wizard piecemeal preparation thing.
And something that's been bothering me. Perivas, you have a druid worshipper of the Green Goddess who also studies alien entities beyong space and time. Huh?
But, aside from trying to wrap my head around that bizarreness, you need to indicate somewhere what she's irrationally afraid of. It's a part of the alienist class, along with the wisdom hit.
Also, we should add Su'ryuu to our discussion here, now that Zack's been added to the game.
Wrahn - Interesting look at the characters. Some comments:
I think Solarion is the better offense character, over Caira. Loudbark is useful for tactical support, but I just don't seem him doing much more than a high-level summon spell in pure offense. He's also something of a liability in that he needs to be put into a melee situation where he can contribute, but not be the brunt of attention.
And, actually, I would put Rahveon over Caira as well. The combination of Devastating/Overwhelming Critical is ridiculously lethal, since your strength is so high. Also, saves are, at this level, a major part of getting something done even in melee; most wizards and most powerful monsters have some kind of blanket attack that quickly deals with messes of weak characters. Extremely good saves make those not an issue, so while Caira's creatures and Sigrun's constructs are getting pulverized by the dragon's breath weapon, you and Solarion will just be glad they're using weaker area attacks instead of concentrating on you. Perhaps it would be different if it was a look at a series of one-person "parties", but I think in the context of the party Rahveon and Solarion will be more effective than otherwise.
Also, I would put Sigrun in the 3rd-place non-combat slot. His skills are actually quite decent, including a good number of knowleges, one of which is higher than my bardic knowledge check. Additionally, psions have the advantage in spell conditions; he can cast in uncomfortable situations, or when talking to someone, for instance. Additionally, two catsers with full divine are largely redundant; generally it is only the better of the two that will be in a really good position to do their thing. Also, Solarion's usual spell list is so focused on hurtin' people that I don't see him putting much utility there unless we already know we'll need it.
Speaking of which, I assume those "open" slots are for OneAboveAll to fill in, and not simply slots that haven't been prepared yet? Divine casters have one time of day (dawn, I assume, for this guy) that they prepare their spells, and that's it. They can't do the wizard piecemeal preparation thing.
And something that's been bothering me. Perivas, you have a druid worshipper of the Green Goddess who also studies alien entities beyong space and time. Huh?
But, aside from trying to wrap my head around that bizarreness, you need to indicate somewhere what she's irrationally afraid of. It's a part of the alienist class, along with the wisdom hit.
Also, we should add Su'ryuu to our discussion here, now that Zack's been added to the game.
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Zack's character has some errors in the creation process.
The first level adjustment buy off should have cost him 11,000xp rather than 8,000xp. As it's ECL-1x1000, he didn't include the half-dragon LA in his ECL which he should have. This would put him at ECL 29, with 27 wilder levels and 2 LA. Why he didn't buy off all of his LA I don't know.
He also has too many power points.
Although I had a question, does a character who has entered epic progression with a level adjustment as Su'ryuu does continue to gain the last two power point increases and powers known of the wilder even though the wilder does not again additional power points or powers known in epic levels? Thus when he attains ECL 21, he gains his 19th wilder level, does he gain those 31pp? And when he attains ECL 22, he gains his 20th wilder level, does he gain those 32pp and another power?
Even if he does, he should only have 532 power points, not 875. 343 from wilder 20, and 189 from having a manifester level of 27 with a +14 charisma modifier.
Also the cost of six +5 tomes should be 825,000gp, not 820200gp, which puts him over the limit of 4,300,000gp to spend by 4,760gp.
The first level adjustment buy off should have cost him 11,000xp rather than 8,000xp. As it's ECL-1x1000, he didn't include the half-dragon LA in his ECL which he should have. This would put him at ECL 29, with 27 wilder levels and 2 LA. Why he didn't buy off all of his LA I don't know.
He also has too many power points.
Although I had a question, does a character who has entered epic progression with a level adjustment as Su'ryuu does continue to gain the last two power point increases and powers known of the wilder even though the wilder does not again additional power points or powers known in epic levels? Thus when he attains ECL 21, he gains his 19th wilder level, does he gain those 31pp? And when he attains ECL 22, he gains his 20th wilder level, does he gain those 32pp and another power?
Even if he does, he should only have 532 power points, not 875. 343 from wilder 20, and 189 from having a manifester level of 27 with a +14 charisma modifier.
Also the cost of six +5 tomes should be 825,000gp, not 820200gp, which puts him over the limit of 4,300,000gp to spend by 4,760gp.
perivas
First Post
Kelleris said:
She's not exactly...well, actually, only minimally similar to...a druid. She's a cleric of a powerful nature-loving deity. (There are a lot of those whose worshippers are not druids.) Now, if you are a powerful cleric and wanted to talk to your god and his/her messengers in person...you head off to the Outer Planes...where you don't always meet your god first. So, you start talking with some of these outsiders from beyond and discover the nature of things are not so simple. (It's not just you/angels/gods, but you/angels/gods and others/other's angels/other's gods and parallel universe-you/parallel-universe angels/parallel-universe gods and distant outsiders from beyond/distant outer plane angels from beyond/your own god!) You come to understand the role that gods at the Outer Planes have in the scheme of things...but you don't end up abandoning your god. Sometimes, things get a little crazy out there for the fragile mortal mind...that's when you end up with someone like Caira.
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