[OOC] The Endless Falls Character Discussion Thread

[Ferrix]

Su'ryuu also can't take exotic weapon proficiency at level 1, but if he just switches it with empower power, then there's no problem.

Also his skills are off, he should have 255 skill points at Wilder level 27, ECL 29, he has listed 310 skill points. He retroactively figured the inherent bonus of +5 which is only available at the earliest of ECL 14 with the amount of money available for a character of that level. [cheese]255 skill points is the most you can get if you buy the tome at ECL 14.[/cheese]

It also might be more wise to spread out the characters wealth, you have it clumped into four incredibly expensive items (your epic enhancement bonus items and your sword). These four items take up about 75% of your wealth.

 

[Zack2216]

Skill points: corrected
Equipment: corrected (shrunk ring of resistance down to +4)
Power point total: corrected

About my ecl, I had assumed that I would've been able to drop it at ecl 9, not class level 9, and forgot to read the example, which explains it in detail.


So, after doing some math, I found that if I do dump that 45 k exp to get rid of the ecl, I do come out to 28th level. Beforehand, I didn't do the math to determine which route would be better. So, I still get to stay level 28 wilder wise, and the last 31 pp thing isn't an issue. So, no real change, other then my ecl.

My pp, I don't know. Just same bad calculator math on my part. Probably forgot to divide by 2 somewhere. Also, after re-reading the epic power point/manifester level progression, several times, I figured that the character doesn't get bonus power points per manifester level after 20, and recaclulated thusly, because the book stated that no bonus power points are gained after 20. I mean, unless there was a ruling somewhere (crosses fingers).

Also, what would you have suggested equipment wise?

 

[Wrahn]

I am trying to understand the buying down the LA thing, this is how I understand it:

The earliest you can buy an ECL off is 3 x the ECL number so for ECL 4 you could buy it off at 12, 21, 27 and 30. The formula for figuring out how much EXP it cost is the current level plus the current ECL minus one and then take the total times a thousand. So to buy off the entirety of the ECL of 4 would take 96,000 experience and would require 501,000 xp total (so they could have reached level 30 and bought off the last level, delevelling back to 28 a thousand XP away from 29.)

So for the math geeks amoung us:

LA 4

((LA x 3) + (LA) - 1) x 1,000 = 15,000
((LA x 3 + (LA - 1) x 3) + (LA -1) - 1) x 1,000 = 23,000
((LA x 3 + (LA - 1) x 3 + (LA - 2) x 3) + (LA - 2) - 1) x 1,000 = 28,000
((LA x 3 + (LA - 1) x 3 + (LA - 2) x 3 + (LA - 3) x 3) + (LA - 3) - 1) x 1,000 = 30,000

Total of 96,000

So to simplify:

1000(4LA - 1) +
1000(7LA - 5) +
1000(10LA - 12) +
1000(13LA - 22) 

or

34,000LA - 40,000

By my Estimation that would make Su'ryuu a 27th level character, a 1,000 XP from 28 with 1 ECL or a 26th level caster

 

[Wrahn]

Actually, I was doing my line-by-line thing as a prelude to doing exactly what you did, Wrahn. I agree with your assessment of bardic spellcasting as probably being at 2/3 per level, though. Should I go ahead and finish up the breakdown I started, everyone?

Wrahn - Interesting look at the characters. Some comments:

I think Solarion is the better offense character, over Caira. Loudbark is useful for tactical support, but I just don't seem him doing much more than a high-level summon spell in pure offense. He's also something of a liability in that he needs to be put into a melee situation where he can contribute, but not be the brunt of attention.

And, actually, I would put Rahveon over Caira as well. The combination of Devastating/Overwhelming Critical is ridiculously lethal, since your strength is so high. Also, saves are, at this level, a major part of getting something done even in melee; most wizards and most powerful monsters have some kind of blanket attack that quickly deals with messes of weak characters. Extremely good saves make those not an issue, so while Caira's creatures and Sigrun's constructs are getting pulverized by the dragon's breath weapon, you and Solarion will just be glad they're using weaker area attacks instead of concentrating on you. Perhaps it would be different if it was a look at a series of one-person "parties", but I think in the context of the party Rahveon and Solarion will be more effective than otherwise.

Also, I would put Sigrun in the 3rd-place non-combat slot. His skills are actually quite decent, including a good number of knowleges, one of which is higher than my bardic knowledge check. Additionally, psions have the advantage in spell conditions; he can cast in uncomfortable situations, or when talking to someone, for instance. Additionally, two catsers with full divine are largely redundant; generally it is only the better of the two that will be in a really good position to do their thing. Also, Solarion's usual spell list is so focused on hurtin' people that I don't see him putting much utility there unless we already know we'll need it.

Speaking of which, I assume those "open" slots are for OneAboveAll to fill in, and not simply slots that haven't been prepared yet? Divine casters have one time of day (dawn, I assume, for this guy) that they prepare their spells, and that's it. They can't do the wizard piecemeal preparation thing.

And something that's been bothering me. Perivas, you have a druid worshipper of the Green Goddess who also studies alien entities beyong space and time. Huh?

But, aside from trying to wrap my head around that bizarreness, you need to indicate somewhere what she's irrationally afraid of. It's a part of the alienist class, along with the wisdom hit.

Also, we should add Su'ryuu to our discussion here, now that Zack's been added to the game.

Su'ryuu is in the process of being modified, let's wait till we see a final version.

The reason I value clerics so highly in Non-combat situations is the VAST array of spells, particularly divinations that they have. While I am not saying Sigrun is useless in Non-combat situations (far from it), what I am saying is that the versatility of the clerics spells, it is difficult to compete with just skills. The more books that they have access to, the more powerful they become.

Having actually played in an epic game, I can assure you, anything that we fight that is suppose to challenge us will be immune to criticals. They have to be, have you ever seen a high level rogue go to town on someting? Ever seen a vorpal sword going snicker-snack?

So while mooks and the like will probably be sown like wheat, the BBEGs (which more than likely are going to be gods which are automatically immune to criticals according to dieties and demigods) are going to have to be dealt with the old fashion way. Which is why I would rank Rahveon low on offensive, that and because as Ferrix said, casters have a lot of tricks up their sleeves.

Which is why I listed Arion the lowest, even though the +12 to Hit and +6d6 damage per swing is impressive with arcane strike, the BBEGs are going to be able to neutralize him, either by keeping him busy with something else or keeping him away.

As far as Caria goes, my theory here is that Loudbark is nearly the combatant that Solarian is, and Caria is at least equal to him in spell casting, but two people get more actions than one, which is why I placed them higher than Solarian offensively. I did count Loudbark against her in her defense.

As far as Sigruns special defenses go, yes they are impressive, but they can also be foiled and then Sigrun is screwed, he also can't cast when he is in the big astral construct (if I remember correctly) hampering his offense.

 

[Ferrix]

Half-dragon LA is +3... just a note before I'm off for the weekend.

And reread the assume construct feat, he can manifest powers, it's just as if he's behind a wall of ectoplasm (and would therefore need to use burrowing power or something like that) although he does have line of sight.

 

[Wrahn]

Yeah, the +3 LA would explain that .

Still going through it, I do have a question. Let's say I have a LA of 2 (which I do, but that is irrelevant). At sixth level I buy off an LA for 7,000xp which means I delevel to 4th level. Do I then start counting from 4th level, so at 7th level I buy off the last LA (having earned 3 more levels)?

Or does this work like some kind of XP sink. I reach 6th level and say I want to buy off an LA, so the next 7,000 xp I earn go toward buying off the LA?

 

[Wrahn]

Zack-

Most of this is at least partially cheesy so take it with a grain of salt (or a shot of tequila, your choice)

If you don't mind being Large (-1 to hit, AC, -1 to certain skills)

Belt of Titanic Power: Continuous Righteous Might, +6 Enhancement to Strength, +6 Enhancement to Con 468,000

(Size = Large +4 Size Bonus to Strength, +6 Enhancement Bonus to Strength, +6 Enhancement Bonus to Con, +2 Size Bonus to Con, 3/Good Damage Reduction, +4 Enhancement to Natural Armor)

This does the same thing as the Belt of epic strength and the bracers of epic health, plus a few other things.

The Boots of Swiftness are not a good bang for your buck.

120,000 Boots of Continuous Haste (+30 ft of movement, +1 to attack, AC and Reflex saves, an additional attack at highest attack bonus)
25,000 Ring of Evasion
36,000 +6 Gloves of Dexterity
35,000 Ring: +10 Insight Bonus on Tumble, +10 Competence Bonus on Tumble
35,000 Bracer: +10 Insight Bonus on Balance, +10 Competence Bonus on Balance

251,000 only saving you 5k and you lose out on the jump and climb bonuses, but it gives you combat bonuses through haste.

You should really consider the Rod of Splendor, it only gives +8 Charisma but is only 250k ish and doesn't take an items slot.

more later

 

[Wrahn]

Zack-

Is the dwarven Urgosh you list Shadowfell as being an urgrosh?

Urgrosh, Dwarven: A dwarven urgrosh is a double weapon. You can fight with it as if fighting with two weapons, but if you do, you incur all the normal attack penalties associated with fighting with two weapons, just as if you were using a one-handed weapon and a light weapon. The urgrosh’s axe head is a slashing weapon that deals 1d8 points of damage. Its spear head is a piercing weapon that deals 1d6 points of damage. You can use either head as the primary weapon. The other is the off-hand weapon. A creature wielding a dwarven urgrosh in one hand can’t use it as a double weapon—only one end of the weapon can be used in any given round.

If you use a ready action to set an urgrosh against a charge, you deal double damage if you score a hit against a charging character. If you use an urgrosh against a charging character, the spear head is the part of the weapon that deals damage.

Dwarves treat dwarven urgroshes as martial weapons.

If it is the damage you list is a little wonky:

Full Attack: Shadowfell +34/+29/+24, 2d8+27 and 3 con damage and 2d4 negative levels; and bite +28, 1d6+7

I am assuming you are making your weapon +6 with metaphysical weapon, but where are you getting 2d8, the Urgrosh is a double weapon (and a weak one at that) its damage is 1d8/1d6. You don't have two weapon fighting so you are at -6 to hit with it, the damage bonus is wrong since it is treated as a one handed medium weapon and a one handed light.

If the urgosh is the urgrosh then (as far as I can tell) it looks like this:

+28/+28/+23/+18 for 1d8 + 20 primary and 1d6 + 13 offhand

The cost is wrong as well. As it requires enchantment of both heads of the weapon effectively doubling the cost.

I am going to guess you were looking at the Fullblade or the Mecurial Greatsword (though I believe the Mecurial Greatsword has been errataed, can't remember specifically what was done to it)

 

[Wrahn]

Zack-

Isn't your Inertial Armor Bonus too high? (1 Base(4) + 26 (13))=27 and +17 armor bonus.

Don't mean to be picking on you, it is actually kind of a question, we don't use Psionic as they are written in my home game.

 

[Kelleris]

Continuous righteous might?

Urgh... Well, let's see what the final numbers look like.

And could someone please tell me how Su'ryuu's weapon does 3 Con damage and 2d4 negative levels with no save per hit, and only costs a half-million gold? And then gives her 2d4 x 5 temporary hit points?

I'm gonna start demanding a discount for Akumunaga at this rate...

*shakes fist angrily*