D&D General Playstyle vs Mechanics

[pemerton]

as far as things are not mentioned, I assume they work like they do on Earth.

<snip>

The operating assumption is things are just like on Earth, and we do not think too hard about it when they are not (dragons…)

Which is "common sense", not physics.

I assume I would be able to swim, just like I can on Earth

Again, this is "common sense", not physics.

I did not say they knew about oxygen, I said I would expect it to work the same way as here, so if I am in a closed room, I will eventually suffocate, and if I make a fire in it, that will be faster.

Ditto.

None of this is about physics. No one doubts that the worlds of D&D include combustion and suffocation. My posts have been about universal gravitation, the atomic character of matter, the speed of light in a vacuum, the role of oxygen in combustion, etc. No D&D text suggests or implies that these things are the same in the worlds of D&D as they are in real life. And they actually imply the opposite, due to air being an element, instantaneous travel and signalling being possible, perpetual motion machines being relatively common, etc.

There are many implicit assumptions in everything we do in the game, and the unspoken agreement is that they work just like they work here, even if the ‘why’ could be different.

This is agreement with my point. So I'm not sure why you are presenting it as disagreement.

 

[mamba]

Which is "common sense", not physics.

and? I said stuff behaves the way it does here on Earth

None of this is about physics.

what difference does that make?

No D&D text suggests or implies that these things are the same in the worlds of D&D as they are in real life.

and basically none contradict it when it comes to things like combustion or explosives and other 'low level' stuff

This is agreement with my point. So I'm not sure why you are presenting it as disagreement.

Your point sounded a lot more like 'No one knows how anything behaves, after all we have magic and gods here, so anything is possible. You cannot rely on anything behaving the way you are used to from Earth'

If your point only is that while stuff generally behaves the same way, it might have a different explanation as to why it does, then we are in agreement and I misunderstood you.

 

[Aldarc]

Which is "common sense", not physics.

Again, this is "common sense", not physics.

Ditto.

None of this is about physics. No one doubts that the worlds of D&D include combustion and suffocation. My posts have been about universal gravitation, the atomic character of matter, the speed of light in a vacuum, the role of oxygen in combustion, etc. No D&D text suggests or implies that these things are the same in the worlds of D&D as they are in real life. And they actually imply the opposite, due to air being an element, instantaneous travel and signalling being possible, perpetual motion machines being relatively common, etc.

This is agreement with my point. So I'm not sure why you are presenting it as disagreement.

D&D is uninterested, for example, in how magic relates to principles of thermodynamics, the conservation of energy, or other principles of physics. Magic undoubtedly goes against physics. Any world that exists in a game with such pervasive magic can't really assume that the world operates with the same laws of physics.

 

[pemerton]

what difference does that make?

Because the posts I am responding too - beginning with - asserted that physics, including universal gravitation, is the default for D&D worlds.

If your point only is that while stuff generally behaves the same way, it might have a different explanation as to why it does, then we are in agreement and I misunderstood you.

Some stuff - eg combustion, the need to breathe, the relationships between human bodies and walls and water - behaves the same way. Some other stuff - eg arthropod respiration, animal flight - does not (given that giant terrestrial arthropods, and dragons, are found by default in D&D worlds).

The worlds of D&D conform to some sort of fantasy "common sense" - the common sense of JRRT, REH, Earthsea, etc. But they do not conform to physics, assuming that word is being used to describe the actual natural laws and properties (universal gravitation, atomically-constituted matter, relativistic phenomena, etc) that underlie reality and are studied by physicists.

 

[Aldarc]

D&D is uninterested, for example, in how magic relates to principles of thermodynamics, the conservation of energy, or other principles of physics. Magic undoubtedly goes against physics. Any world that exists in a game with such pervasive magic can't really assume that the world operates with the same laws of physics.

I would also add that this is kind of the point of the film Flight of Dragons: fantasy worlds do not make sense from the perspective of science.

 

[AlViking]

If a fictional world doesn't fully follow the known laws of physics, I don't see how that automatically means physics no longer describes the world. Physics isn't why we have gravity, physics is how we describe how we think gravity works. But we aren't really sure that we're right because we can't figure out the relationship between the macro and quantum level effects of gravity. Pretty obvious that something modifies our observation of physics in many forms of fiction. Harry Potter shouldn't be able to fly around on a broom but we assume the rest of the world still works like ours does unless told otherwise. I've always assumed the same for DnD worlds.

 

[TwoSix]

If a fictional world doesn't fully follow the known laws of physics, I don't see how that automatically means physics no longer describes the world. Physics isn't why we have gravity, physics is how we describe how we think gravity works. But we aren't really sure that we're right because we can't figure out the relationship between the macro and quantum level effects of gravity. Pretty obvious that something modifies our observation of physics in many forms of fiction. Harry Potter shouldn't be able to fly around on a broom but we assume the rest of the world still works like ours does unless told otherwise. I've always assumed the same for DnD worlds.

We assume that in fiction not because it is true, but because it is easier.

In-depth exploration of how D&D magic would interact with science is the place of rationalist fanfics or deeply simulationist setting books.

What it means for us as D&D players is that if we see a rule that runs counter to our real-world assumptions based on science, we can't assume that the rule is wrong or poorly modeled purely for that reason; the counter-argument that the game world works differently because of supernatural impacts is always a consideration.

 

[Micah Sweet]

We assume that in fiction not because it is true, but because it is easier.

In-depth exploration of how D&D magic would interact with science is the place of rationalist fanfics or deeply simulationist setting books.

What it means for us as D&D players is that if we see a rule that runs counter to our real-world assumptions based on science, we can't assume that the rule is wrong or poorly modeled purely for that reason; the counter-argument that the game world works differently because of supernatural impacts is always a consideration.

When I see such a rule (without obvious supernatural implication), I definitely consider whether or not I can realistically make that rule run closer to reality.

 

[AlViking]

We assume that in fiction not because it is true, but because it is easier.

In-depth exploration of how D&D magic would interact with science is the place of rationalist fanfics or deeply simulationist setting books.

What it means for us as D&D players is that if we see a rule that runs counter to our real-world assumptions based on science, we can't assume that the rule is wrong or poorly modeled purely for that reason; the counter-argument that the game world works differently because of supernatural impacts is always a consideration.

Fair enough but if I'm feeling nostalgic and watch an episode of Buffy the Vampire Slayer I'm not at all surprised when a vampire turns to dust when she stakes them or that there were vampires at all. But if she suddenly beams up to The Enterprise it's going to feel out of place because that hasn't been established as part of how Sunnydale works. If it does happen there will be some explanation of how she's dreaming or hallucinating it because I know that's not how it works.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Fair enough but if I'm feeling nostalgic and watch an episode of Buffy the Vampire Slayer I'm not at all surprised when a vampire turns to dust when she stakes them or that there were vampires at all. But if she suddenly beams up to The Enterprise it's going to feel out of place because that hasn't been established as part of how Sunnydale works. If it does happen there will be some explanation of how she's dreaming or hallucinating it because I know that's not how it works.

Yup. Supernatural stuff works for me much, much better when there's some consistency to it.