D&D General Playstyle vs Mechanics

[TwoSix]

Fair enough but if I'm feeling nostalgic and watch an episode of Buffy the Vampire Slayer I'm not at all surprised when a vampire turns to dust when she stakes them or that there were vampires at all. But if she suddenly beams up to The Enterprise it's going to feel out of place because that hasn't been established as part of how Sunnydale works. If it does happen there will be some explanation of how she's dreaming or hallucinating it because I know that's not how it works.

But you're not surprised if Buffy can lift a car, despite that being a physical impossibility for an adult who weighs maybe 110 lb with relatively little muscle mass.

The only expectation for what physics rules might be broken is genre logic; that's the point I'm making.

 

[Micah Sweet]

But you're not surprised if Buffy can lift a car, despite that being a physical impossibility for an adult who weighs maybe 110 lb with relatively little muscle mass.

The only expectation for what physics rules might be broken is genre logic; that's the point I'm making.

Never seen her lift a car, and what strength she has exhibited is clearly magical in nature. They explain that, many times. That's what I always want. A plausible, in-setting explanation.

 

[mamba]

We assume that in fiction not because it is true, but because it is easier.

ok

What it means for us as D&D players is that if we see a rule that runs counter to our real-world assumptions based on science, we can't assume that the rule is wrong or poorly modeled purely for that reason; the counter-argument that the game world works differently because of supernatural impacts is always a consideration.

it only would be a consideration if I thought that the game had any intention of modeling a realistic world under the influence of whatever it is that allows the exceptions like dragons.

I see no reason to believe that it is attempting that at all. If anything, I see reasons to not follow physics to allow for simpler formulas and gamist conveniences, not an effort to establish a realistic model that accounts for dragons and magic.

 

[AlViking]

But you're not surprised if Buffy can lift a car, despite that being a physical impossibility for an adult who weighs maybe 110 lb with relatively little muscle mass.

The only expectation for what physics rules might be broken is genre logic; that's the point I'm making.

Then it comes down to the genre and what exceptions have been established. If you have established expectations you need to explain them and how or why the genre changes. At the very least like on The Expanse where the people are surprised by how things work and that the alien technology broke physics again.

 

[tetrasodium]

But you're not surprised if Buffy can lift a car, despite that being a physical impossibility for an adult who weighs maybe 110 lb with relatively little muscle mass.

The only expectation for what physics rules might be broken is genre logic; that's the point I'm making.

Can't recall her ever lifting a car, but she is explicitly empowered by magical forces as "the slayer"

 

[pemerton]

If a fictional world doesn't fully follow the known laws of physics, I don't see how that automatically means physics no longer describes the world. Physics isn't why we have gravity, physics is how we describe how we think gravity works. But we aren't really sure that we're right because we can't figure out the relationship between the macro and quantum level effects of gravity. Pretty obvious that something modifies our observation of physics in many forms of fiction. Harry Potter shouldn't be able to fly around on a broom but we assume the rest of the world still works like ours does unless told otherwise. I've always assumed the same for DnD worlds.

There is absolutely no reason to think that universal gravitation obtains in the worlds of D&D. Perhaps planets orbit the sun, but in some D&D worlds the sun is as it is in JRRT's work, and orbits the earth. In some D&D worlds those orbits are probably circular rather than elliptical. In D&D worlds, combustion is connected to an element of fire, perhaps related also to an element of air - there is no reason to think that the oxygen theory of combustion is true in those worlds.

To put it another way: the common sense description of how gravity works near the surface of the earth is "unsupported objects fall to earth". In D&D worlds, that common-sense description is true.

But universal gravitation is not, primarily, an account of why unsupported objects fall to earth. It is primarily an account of forces and motion that reconciles and integrates an understanding of falling with an understanding of celestial motion. And there is no reason at all, in a D&D world, to think that celestial motion behaves as it does in reality. And there is good reason to suspect it does not.

Similarly, in D&D worlds it is often the case that space is nothing like space in reality (but, eg, an "astral plane" or "astral sea"); that Mars is a planet with a breathable atmosphere (see eg the incorporation of Barsoom into early D&D); that it is possible to fly, using wings, to the moon (see Gygax's account of this in his PHB), etc.

 

[pemerton]

When I see such a rule (without obvious supernatural implication), I definitely consider whether or not I can realistically make that rule run closer to reality.

Do you really not use giant terrestrial arthropods, and flying dragons, in your FRPGing?

 

[pemerton]

Fair enough but if I'm feeling nostalgic and watch an episode of Buffy the Vampire Slayer I'm not at all surprised when a vampire turns to dust when she stakes them or that there were vampires at all. But if she suddenly beams up to The Enterprise it's going to feel out of place because that hasn't been established as part of how Sunnydale works.

This is an observation about genre, not an observation about whether or not scientific law operates in the fantasy world.

EDIT: as @TwoSix said.

 

[AlViking]

This is an observation about genre, not an observation about whether or not scientific law operates in the fantasy world.

EDIT: as @TwoSix said.

What we call physics is just math and theories of how the world works. Every system, even a Bugs Bunny universe, would have some sort of physics.

I assume the observable world in any fiction is the same as ours unless it's stated otherwise. Dragons flying has nothing to do with anything other than dragons and other magical critters.

If you don't do that you have to question everything an I'd rather not.

 

[TwoSix]

I assume the observable world in any fiction is the same as ours unless it's stated otherwise. Dragons flying has nothing to do with anything other than dragons and other magical critters.

Yes, but the crux of the issue is that as participants in a roleplaying game fiction, we take responsibility to author what those "stated otherwise" moments are.

A game in which I can use "shocking grasp" to separate hydrogen and oxygen from water is a very different game than one in which "water" is a fundamental essence of the universe.