D&D 5E Psion, Sorcerer, and Warlock

[Xeviat]

Hi everyone. Rather than talk about rules specifically, I want to talk about how the rules reflect on the flavor of the game. I really like that classes in 5E are representative of things in the world, and that subclasses fine tune that place.

I'm not a big fan of reflavoring classes to be different things, and would rather make new classes or subclasses to represent new things. But there's times where it feels necessary, because there isn't a strong enough mechanic to make a separate class for something.

This thought got me to look at the Sorcerer and Warlock. There feels like quite a bit of overlap between them conceptually. Sorcerers have magic in their blood, and Warlocks make a pact to get magic. These two could be rolled together thematically if they wanted to. Their strongly different mechanics, with sorcerers being long rest and warlocks being short rest, keep them separate, but it wouldn't take much effort to blend them. Were you born with your power? Did you make a deal for it?

Now, of all sorcerers were transformative, then they'd be differentiated enough for me. I was just thinking about making a fiendblooded Sorcerer, but would it just be a warlock-light?

This then got me thinking about the psion. Mechanics aside, is a psion just a "mental sorcerer"?

What do you see as the thematic differences between these classes?


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[Lanliss]

Sorcerer
I feel the most important fluff for the sorc is its blood. It has inherited magic, one way or another, and is slowly embodying that.

Warlock
My second favorite class, and favorite as far as fluff goes. Warlock is representative of a hundred different characters, various types of people who made pacts with different types of beings. While the Warlocks powers are flavored by the pact, the Warlock does not itself embody the creature it made a pact with, so I would say no, they cannot be blended. IMO, they are more polar opposites than Wizard and sorc, but more realistically they are all part of an equilateral triangle.

Psion
Not well versed in this one, but as I understand it, it would fall between the Sorc and Warlock on that triangle I mentioned above. Maybe it modded its body to get the powers, maybe it was born with them. Because of this, I would say that one subclass should be Sorc-style "Born with powers", but with invocation style flexibility that allows more control of what the powers are like. Another subclass should be Warlock-Style "Got its powers later", with flexible abilities and body mods that could be played with, and probably a single defining choice that changes over time. "I got a neck mod, do I want to grab the Brain booster attachment next level, or the Neck extension mod?", for example. Of course , this is all guess work based on the couple of paragraphs worth of conversation I have seen on the subject. No idea what it is actually like though...

 

[Gadget]

I disagree with your supposition about the Warlock and Sorcerer being practically the same; they are not IMHO. You could make the same argument about the Sorcerer and the Wizard, also IMHO. Then we could just give meta-magic to all wizards and allow the (broken) lore wizard.

That said, I think the Sorcerer does need a little something in the flavor department. I wouldn't mind the Psion being implemented as a 'mental Sorcerer', but I'm sure a huge portion of the fan base (that likes psions) would rise up with pitch forks and torches. Also I'm not sure the sub-class chassis could handle the additional mechanics you would want to put on a psionic sorcerer.

 

[famousringo]

I agree that rules have a flavour and should be harmonious with the themes they try to represent.

Personally, I wouldn't mind swapping the core mechanics of sorcerer and warlock around. Metamagic feels like "cheating" the rules of magic as you might expect of somebody who bargained their way to power. And at-will powers and short rest bursts feel like the kind of magic an intuitive savant would wield.

Or maybe rather than swapping mechanics, sorcerer should simply use pact magic mechanics rather than the regular caster progression, with less emphasis on melee and more emphasis on caster mechanics. Sort of playing "wizard" to warlock's "cleric", if you like, with metamagic instead of a pact boon and an extra spell slot per rest in exchange for reduced durability.

As for Psions, there is some similarity with sorcerer in that there tends to be a natural gift required, but mind magic is more focused on introspection, self-discovery, and discipline. A sorcerer is like a child, learning through play, but learning magic rather than motor skills, and with the same kind of casual lightheartedness. Psions are more like monks, but pushing the boundaries of their minds rather than their bodies through dedicated training and force of will. Mind over matter. Studious like a wizard, but studying their own mind and perception, rather than dusty tomes.

 

[Xeviat]

I would fully support sorcerers using the pact magic progression.


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[MoonSong]

I have a homebrew version of the sorcerer that goes a little like that. A little...

 

[The Crimson Binome]

Psions are like Wizards in that they actually know what they're doing.

Sorcerers aren't sure what they're doing, but they have the power, so they just practice until it seems to work.

Clerics and Warlocks have no clue what they're doing, but someone gave them power, and it's easy enough for them to point and shoot without really caring about how it works.

 

[Mercule]

I actually have house rules for "Pact of the Blood" Warlocks -- basically, Warlocks who gained their magic by right of birth, instead of bargain. Any of the metamagic abilities are just Invocations with a prerequisite of "Pact of Blood". The Sorcerer bloodlines are stupid-easy to convert. I had one player with a Warlock who made a pact with an Elder Wyrm and it worked marvelously.

That said, the main reason I did that is because I thought the Warlock mechanics would be easier for a new player. Also, I don't really like the Wild Sorcerer, and it seemed stupid to have a class with only one kit while everything else has lots of options. In my current game, the Favored Soul is actually a Sorcerer.

As far as a Psionic Sorcerer, it depends on how you picture Psionics. If psionics is just a smattering of magical abilities that you have due to accident of birth or something similar, then Sorcerer makes complete sense. Personally, going all the way back to 1E AD&D, I've always treated psionics as a way for PCs to pick up some unexplained magical abilities. Even in 2E, when the Psion class was added, actual Psions were the exception to an already exceptional rule; they had to be born with some natural gift and then also actively pursue their freakish ability. So, fluff-wise, the Sorcerer is walking right into where the Psion already stood, in my view. It's just bringing slightly more explanation and variance to the deal.

Some folks object to the Psion as a Sorcerer kit because Psions are mentalists who just think stuff into happening. I say, if you can do magic because it's literally oozing out of your blood, there is no explanation for using the same arcane formulae as Wizards that isn't stupid. In 5E, the VSM components are sufficiently loose that they're almost easier to interpret as unique by class or even sub-class. Wizards use arcane formulae, precise hand movements, etc. Clerics play, make pious motions, etc. Bards recite poetry, play instruments, and sing and dance, while also borrowing from other classes. Warlocks are a bit like Wizards, but with duck tape and bailing wire.

Sorcerers? Well, Sorcerers, regardless of kit, say whatever comes to mind and make whatever gestures help them focus their internal magic. That could be chanting in pig Latin or just saying, "Burn, you bastard." Ditto with the gestures -- one sorcerer may look like he's pitching a firebolt like a baseball, while another just points his finger. Many times, they know those things are just crutches, and that's okay. Some of them learn to focus well enough that they can cast a few "spells" without the crutch (Subtle Spell), but it's a bit more draining. Other learn different tricks that one not born to the magic could never pull off. Sure, a lot of it looks like stuff a Wizard could do, but that's because a) Wizards are smart and more than willing to crib a good idea and 2) some of these concepts are pretty universal ("I'm angry, light it on fire" is not exactly rocket science). That all sounds a lot like a traditional Psion, to me, other than a few trappings like ectoplasm that were added just to make it "not magic".

If psionics are a discipline that anyone could learn, then it doesn't make as much sense. For this, you are probably going to want a new class. If drawing on Earth lore, then Eastern mysticism looks like a fit. Thus, the UA Mystic class is the answer, at least at a high level. The Monk is also likely Psionic, by that definition. You could probably come up with another class or two, but I wouldn't. Try to make sub-classes for the Mystic and Monk, first.

So, my shorter answer would be:
* Warlock is good for what they are. Making pacts that aren't quite divine and aren't quite arcane seems like it warrants a different class. Definitely not "born with it" or "years of study".
* Sorcerers are good for anyone who is "born with it". This includes old school psionics. Really, they're the same thing in 5E, just that the Sorcerer class cares where your power comes from. If they didn't, though, I'd be fine squishing "born with it" into the Warlock.
* Mystic is good for "years of study". They're a concept that isn't really covered by any other class (Monk is debatable, but only somewhat).

 

[Xeviat]

Thanks for the good thoughts everyone.


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[TheCosmicKid]

If magic is auto racing...

The wizard is an engineer who has built his car from scratch and studied the physics of the road to calculate every racing line.
The sorcerer inherited her car from her parents, has been driving it since she was big enough to reach the pedals, and has an intuitive feel for its handling.
The warlock bought a top-of-the-line car and hired a professional to drive it for him.
And the psion somehow keeps up even though she's running around the track in an imaginary car.

Mechanically, these distinctions are reflected... inconsistently. I'll set aside the psion until we see a final version, but between wizard, sorcerer, warlock, and the other casters, it's sort of strange for the warlock alone to get a unique spell system when his magic isn't any more unique than anyone else's. To me, warlock mechanics are best understood as reflecting somebody who is channeling this power from elsewhere: that's why all the spell slots are the same level and he gets them back with just a short rest. He's a firehose (if you'll permit yet another analogy) that may have a limited strength and aperture size, but is nevertheless drawing water from the municipal supply, whereas wizards and sorcerers have their own reservoirs of power that they have to ration more carefully. But if this is what channeling power from elsewhere looks like, why don't the divine casters look like this? Why is a cleric more similar to a wizard than a warlock?