D&D 5E What is the Sorcerer?

[Flights of Fancy]

Mostly? It's mechanics for subclass, feats and diffent sorcerer-only magic items that (imho) effectively function as patches to the main class.

There's lots of little details scattered around that add up.

I guess. I've never looked into them enough to form that idea. I guess "patch" is the word for it though.

Some Wizard subclasses get the same mechanics as a metamagic ability. Famously, the first Evoker ability is a better version Careful Spell metamagic w/o cost. Enchanter at level 14 has a school-restricted version of Twin Spell.

I wonder if the intent was for wizards getting their own metamagics via subclass, and not actually restricting metamagic to Sorcerer.

OK. I see what you mean. That would have been something if they used it across the board.

The need for Vocal, Material, Somatic components. Counterspells and anti-magic. Presumed adventuring day having at least 6 encouters with not enough spell slots.

Very few DMs leverage these, and for good reasons, but they do exist.

These aren't checks and balances. Saying so would be like saying taking away fighter's weapons and armor is checks and balances.

The d6 for Wizard hit points is a (very minor) one due to abundance of healing in most games, also with easy bonus hp from con. The whol adventuring day encounter thing is also not one since you can spam cantrips at will. For other spell use, unless the DM forces his (or her) hand all the time, resting is available to make it a non-issue. The rest variants with longer rest times might help.

In 5E, only low hp for sorcerers (and wizards) is even close to a check/balance, and fails miserably at that.

Its similar, but it's mostly a question of degrees imho. "Too much of a good thing" or "poison in small amounts is medicine" are good ways of putting it. it's a balancing act.

True.

Thanks again for your infromation.

 

[Maxperson]

Right, but what is the cost/ balance for the sorcerer, not the wizard?

Less versatility is the sorcerer's cost. A 20th level wizard will have 25 spells memorized to pick from and goodness knows how many more to swap in and out in his spellbook. The 20th sorcerer on the other hand has 15 spells to pick from. Period. 15 spells spread over 9 spell levels.

 

[Flights of Fancy]

Less versatility is the sorcerer's cost. A 20th level wizard will have 25 spells memorized to pick from and goodness knows how many more to swap in and out in his spellbook. The 20th sorcerer on the other hand has 15 spells to pick from. Period. 15 spells spread over 9 spell levels.

I've yet to see that actually become an issue in play. Most players have 2-3 spells (at most) per level they really like and use often.

I understand it is a good and valid point, I just wonder at its effectiveness. And I think in 2024 the new sorcerer won't even have that restriction.

 

[Maxperson]

I've yet to see that actually become an issue in play. Most players have 2-3 spells (at most) per level they really like and use often.

I understand it is a good and valid point, I just wonder at its effectiveness. And I think in 2024 the new sorcerer won't even have that restriction.

15 spells is not 2 or 3 spells per spell level. It's less than 2. Used evenly there would be 3 spell levels with only a single spell to choose from. The other 6 spell levels would have 2. That's really limiting.

 

[Shardstone]

There have been literally hundreds of pages discussing the Sorcerer in the last couple of weeks. Is this the new Ranger?

 

[Vaalingrade]

There have been literally hundreds of pages discussing the Sorcerer in the last couple of weeks. Is this the new Ranger?

Nah, just the same old wizard complaints when another class has something, or asks for something, or isn't asking 'where's the wizard' when they aren't on camera.

 

[Flights of Fancy]

15 spells is not 2 or 3 spells per spell level. It's less than 2. Used evenly there would be 3 spell levels with only a single spell to choose from. The other 6 spell levels would have 2. That's really limiting.

The 2 or 3 spells per level is about all casters not just sorcerers. For sorcerers to 12th level it is 2 each spell level, not less than 2 and 2 is part of 2 or 3. So nothing wrong about what I wrote. Not limiting in play at all. Idea is there, use fails.

It is gone in 2024 so not an issue for checks or balances for sorcerers any more.

 

[Maxperson]

The 2 or 3 spells per level is about all casters not just sorcerers. For sorcerers to 12th level it is 2 each spell level, not less than 2 and 2 is part of 2 or 3. So nothing wrong about what I wrote. Not limiting in play at all. Idea is there, use fails.

It is gone in 2024 so not an issue for checks or balances for sorcerers any more.

How can you argue that 2 spells per spell level changeable only when you level up is not more limiting than 2 spells per spell level changeable each morning like clothes? I think you're conflating not minding with not limiting. The sorcerer is objectively far more limited in spell variety than the wizard.

 

[Flights of Fancy]

How can you argue that 2 spells per spell level changeable only when you level up is not more limiting than 2 spells per spell level changeable each morning like clothes? I think you're conflating not minding with not limiting. The sorcerer is objectively far more limited in spell variety than the wizard.

Objectively being the thing. The idea is limiting. The practice is not. So it is not a check or balance for sorcerers. Of course, sorcerer has other toys.

Of course it is less a chack or balance for other spellcasters.

 

[Mephista]

I feel compelled to point out that post-Tasha subclasses have bonus spells. So they get 4 spells per spell level until sorcerer 11.

And 5.5e will have at least two of the pist-Tasha subclasses so we might see that again.