D&D 5E Purple Dragon Knight = Warlord?

[cmad1977]

It's not that warlord fans don't like the PDK.

It's that warlord fans want more PDK, and less fighter.

Yea. Clearly a group of people that can be appeased very simply. Not at all a group bent on fussing and nitpicking and generally being dissatisfied with anything at all.

 

[Imaro]

Given that warlord fans won't be happy regardless of what is presented... I find the PDK hilarious.

It's funny but I'd bet most Warlord fans who play 5e are fine with the Battlemaster, Mastermind and PDK as a replacement (and a very vocal minority who won't be appeased by anything but an actual warlord class.)... Of course this is just my opinion...

 

[Tony Vargas]

How do you wake people up in your world? Do alarm clocks and roosters not work?

You can't count on anything those darn tinker-gnomes make, and roosters (heh, filters) keep getting eaten by wandering monsters....

 

[Tony Vargas]

It's funny but I'd bet most Warlord fans who play 5e are fine with the Battlemaster, Mastermind and PDK as a replacement (and a very vocal minority who won't be appeased by anything but an actual warlord class.)... Of course this is just my opinion...

You'd lose that bet. JMHO, of course.

But, ask yourself, who would have the most valid opinion of what Warlord fans who play 5e would find acceptable, if not a Warlord fan who plays 5e?

 

[Imaro]

You'd lose that bet. JMHO, of course.

This is me shocked...totally shocked I say that you are one of the posters who believes the majority of warlord fans are actually displeased with the current options...

But, ask yourself, who would have the most valid opinion of what Warlord fans who play 5e would find acceptable, if not a Warlord fan who plays 5e?

This assumes all warlord fans want the same thing... and the simple fact is that all I've seen is dissension among the "warlord fans" as to what is an acceptable "warlord". YMMV of course.

 

[El Mahdi]

Unconscious is when you are unable to answer to environmental activities, usually called coma/tose state.
Being asleep / hypnotized is different.

Partly true. Unconscious is when you are unable to consciously respond to your environment. Unconsciousness is not necessarily Coma. The subconscious, depending on the type or level of unconsciousness, may still respond to stimuli.

There are layers of unconsciousness. Sleep is a type of unconsciousness. Coma is a form of unconsciousness. (Actually, there are varying forms/layers of coma also.) Not all unconsciousness is coma.


D&D's rules don't say if sleep is or isn't included in the Unconscious Condition. D&D's rules do not imply or define that the Unconscious Condition is the same as Coma.

D&D's rules do not have that level of granularity. That's what DM's are for.

It is consistent with D&D's rules for a DM to allow a sleeping character to make a perception check. It is just as consistent for a DM to rule that a sleeping character is not allowed to make a perception check.

It is consistent with D&D's rules for a DM to allow shaking, slapping, or cold water to revive (or attempt to revive) an unconscious character. It is just as consistent for a DM to not allow this.

It is consistent with D&D's rules for a class to have a mechanic that triggers a recovery from the Unconscious Condition; even one that uses Inspiration as an Emotional trigger to do so - especially as rules-wise, specific trumps general.

Such emotional triggers are also consistent with some real-life examples. (For example: Mother_awakens_from_coma_after_hearing_newborn_baby's_cries. )

From medical point of view unconscious person does not respond, unlike sleeping one, to any environmental activities, such as loud noises, shaking, etc. If a reason for being unconscious is any type of major injury, actions like slapping them or splashing cold water on their face could even finish them off.

Not entirely true, and also depends on what your definition of "response" is. An unconscious person may not awaken, but MRI and other sensory data has shown that some unconscious people (depending on the level and type of unconsciousness) can and do respond to loud noises and other external stimuli. This shows that hearing and other senses still work and that the subconscious brain is still processing them (again, limited by the level or type of unconsciousness). There however is no "Conscious" response - at least not until consciousness is restored. Subconscious responses may stimulate the sympathetic nervous system to an extent that a return to consciousness is triggered. Very rare and extraordinary indeed, but D&D is all about the rare and extraordinary.

 

[Tony Vargas]

This assumes all warlord fans want the same thing...

By definition, we are all fans of the same class.

and the simple fact is that all I've seen is dissension among the "warlord fans" as to what is an acceptable "warlord".

Sure, one fan who really like lazylords is really concerned about action-granting, and one who favors bravuras will want bonus-action riders while still attacking every round - they have different priorities. The Warlord was quite acceptable to both of them, and a 5e Warlord could be, too - if it has enough going for it, and is sufficiently customizeable.

Trying to cover everything the Warlord could (let alone /should/), with fighter & rogue archetypes and PrCs would require dozens of 'em - more effort and page count and added complexity than even a highly customizeable/flexible full class.

 

[Remathilis]

Personally, I'd likely say that fear - even Dragon Fear - would pale in comparison to the fear a dying character is dealing with - the very real fear of actually occuring death, rather than just the perceived (or supernaturally induced) fear of potential death.

Fear is fear, just like hp recovery is hp recovery. It doesn't matter the source (magical or natural), if a natural ability (a shout from an ally) can stir emotion enough to rouse an "unconscious" character, certainly a fear effect (which, last I checked, dragon fear wasn't magical according to some) can do the same. I'd wager any strong emotional response could as well: if inspiration can do it, why not rage? (Barbarian: use a rage to heal yourself to 1 hp). Further, why only a Purple Dragon Knight's cry? Why can't an ally shake/cry over/cajole an ally? Why not allow Persuasion instead of Medicine?

Again, your welcome to do what you want in your game, but I think you're splitting the Unconscious condition very thinly to justify the warlord healing trope, and I think it could open up a lot of weird corner cases. If you're cool with that, then shine on.

 

[El Mahdi]

Fear is fear, just like hp recovery is hp recovery. It doesn't matter the source (magical or natural), if a natural ability (a shout from an ally) can stir emotion enough to rouse an "unconscious" character, certainly a fear effect (which, last I checked, dragon fear wasn't magical according to some) can do the same. I'd wager any strong emotional response could as well: if inspiration can do it, why not rage? (Barbarian: use a rage to heal yourself to 1 hp). Further, why only a Purple Dragon Knight's cry? Why can't an ally shake/cry over/cajole an ally? Why not allow Persuasion instead of Medicine?

Again, your welcome to do what you want in your game, but I think you're splitting the Unconscious condition very thinly to justify the warlord healing trope, and I think it could open up a lot of weird corner cases. If you're cool with that, then shine on.

Actually, I'm not. I'm not splitting the Unconscious condition at all. As with Hit Points, the Unconscious Condition is vague; purposely vague so as to support the multitude of views that D&D fans hold. That vagueness supports many tropes all on its own - it doesn't require me to justify it. D&D's rules already support the Warlord. The splitting is coming from those that insist on limiting what interpretations are "officially" allowed.

 

[ZickZak]

Partly true. Unconscious is when you are unable to consciously respond to your environment. Unconsciousness is not necessarily Coma. The subconscious, depending on the type or level of unconsciousness, may still respond to stimuli.There are layers of unconsciousness. Sleep is a type of unconsciousness. Coma is a form of unconsciousness. (Actually, there are varying forms/layers of coma also.) Not all unconsciousness is coma.D&D's rules don't say if sleep is or isn't included in the Unconscious Condition. D&D's rules do not imply or define that the Unconscious Condition is the same as Coma.D&D's rules do not have that level of granularity. That's what DM's are for.It is consistent with D&D's rules for a DM to allow a sleeping character to make a perception check. It is just as consistent for a DM to rule that a sleeping character is not allowed to make a perception check.It is consistent with D&D's rules for a DM to allow shaking, slapping, or cold water to revive (or attempt to revive) an unconscious character. It is just as consistent for a DM to not allow this.It is consistent with D&D's rules for a class to have a mechanic that triggers a recovery from the Unconscious Condition; even one that uses Inspiration as an Emotional trigger to do so - especially as rules-wise, specific trumps general.Such emotional triggers are also consistent with some real-life examples. (For example: Mother_awakens_from_coma_after_hearing_newborn_baby's_cries. )Not entirely true, and also depends on what your definition of "response" is. An unconscious person may not awaken, but MRI and other sensory data has shown that some unconscious people (depending on the level and type of unconsciousness) can and do respond to loud noises and other external stimuli. This shows that hearing and other senses still work and that the subconscious brain is still processing them (again, limited by the level or type of unconsciousness). There however is no "Conscious" response - at least not until consciousness is restored. Subconscious responses may stimulate the sympathetic nervous system to an extent that a return to consciousness is triggered.

Yes