D&D (2024) Ranger 2024 is a bigger joke than Ranger 2014:

[Horwath]

I imagine players would be saying "why goodberry? why not hunter's mark?" lol

that is why: pick a 1st level Ranger spell, you can cast it "this many times" without a spell slot.

 

[Ashrym]

that is why: pick a 1st level Ranger spell, you can cast it "this many times" without a spell slot.

The problem with that is what to do with the 13th, 17th, and 20th level abilities that enhance hunter's mark. Adding an ability to enhance each spell a new thing, and not doing so turns it into "pick a spell you can cast a few times more" as kind of boring.

I'm not a fan of using a spell this way, but at least Hunter's Mark seems thematic to me. Choosing another spell wouldn't change my opinion on using a spell this way. Different spell, same dislike. ;-)

 

[Horwath]

Sure.
However it's bland and flavorless.
Like why does a Ranger get to ignore the break of concentration of all spells.

The 2024 Ranger is already "Screw flavor, more power". I don't want the ranger to end up being a bland flavorless vanilla blob like the fighter and wizard for "Screw flavor, more power"

I like the flavor of HM on the ranger, it describes being "rangery" somewhat.
Better searching, better tracking on a focus of your senses, and bonus damage.
And bonus damage is a problem within power level of a class.

and there are few possible paths to take:

1. Current solution, give extra usages and who cares, you got something extra from your class resource pool instead of something else, but it's simple solution.

2. Modify HM spell itself that it does not require Concentration. Limiting damage to once on your turn could be a healthy compromise.

3. Give option to ignore Concentration on HM for shorter duration(1 min) like Dragon sorcerer or War cleric.

4 Dig more into Ranger class resource pool and see if and at what level could you ignore Concentration form HM. 5th level seems a good spot when actually decent spell with Concentration come into play.

5. Give ability similar to HM, but not being HM:
As they did in SW5E with Ranger's quarry;

Star Wars 5e

sw5e.com

you do it for free at-will, and if you want to double dip your damage and spend your regular slots and Concentration on HM go ahead.

 

[Horwath]

The problem with that is what to do with the 13th, 17th, and 20th level abilities that enhance hunter's mark. Adding an ability to enhance each spell a new thing, and not doing so turns it into "pick a spell you can cast a few times more" as kind of boring.

I'm not a fan of using a spell this way, but at least Hunter's Mark seems thematic to me. Choosing another spell wouldn't change my opinion on using a spell this way. Different spell, same dislike. ;-)

that is other part of the problem,
13th, 17th and 20th level class features should not be tied to 1st level spell.

 

[Minigiant]

I like the flavor of HM on the ranger, it describes being "rangery" somewhat.
Better searching, better tracking on a focus of your senses, and bonus damage.
And bonus damage is a problem within power level of a class.

and there are few possible paths to take:

1. Current solution, give extra usages and who cares, you got something extra from your class resource pool instead of something else, but it's simple solution.

2. Modify HM spell itself that it does not require Concentration. Limiting damage to once on your turn could be a healthy compromise.

3. Give option to ignore Concentration on HM for shorter duration(1 min) like Dragon sorcerer or War cleric.

4 Dig more into Ranger class resource pool and see if and at what level could you ignore Concentration form HM. 5th level seems a good spot when actually decent spell with Concentration come into play.

5. Give ability similar to HM, but not being HM:
As they did in SW5E with Ranger's quarry;

Star Wars 5e

sw5e.com

you do it for free at-will, and if you want to double dip your damage and spend your regular slots and Concentration on HM go ahead.

Hunter's Mark without concentration is a extremely good power boost in Tier 1 and still very good in 2-3.

Rangers don't need that and it's too tempting for multiclass.

 

[CreamCloud0]

I imagine players would be saying "why goodberry? why not hunter's mark?" lol

okay lets get this back in perspective, goodberry was just an example of a 1st level ranger spell, the poster to whom i quoted your prior response from had said:

Yes, the player should be able to choose. I'm cool with letting people who want nothing other than do basic attacks and spam HM pick that, let me pick some free Goodberries instead.

the point is HM is not the be-all, end-all spell for some people, and we don't even have to imagine people saying "why hunter's mark? why not something i can actually use" because we've already heard multiple people claiming that in this thread already, people want to be able to pick for themselves a spell that will be useful to their ranger, not be loaded up with this awkward spell that almost seems designed to interfere with the useage compatability of multiple other ranger capabilities hogging both concentration full time it's active and your bonus action irregularly.

 

[Horwath]

Hunter's Mark without concentration is a extremely good power boost in Tier 1 and still very good in 2-3.

Rangers don't need that and it's too tempting for multiclass.

That is why I said 5th level atleast.

 

[Minigiant]

I think one of the core issues is that people don't agree with the ranger game loop on paper compared to it in play.

However they cannot describe what they want to ranger core play loop to be in play.

So we have this classic survey based answer of:

I don't like it
So what do you want
I don't know

The paladin doesn't have this problem because everybody agrees to what the planet gameplay loop. "Melee Attack then if the target is important or grow high Smite". Warlock is "EB while concentrating on a spell".

 

[Minigiant]

That is why I said 5th level atleast.

Still too powerful

 

[Horwath]

Still too powerful

maybe.

that is why if ranger keeps HM, I like the +1d6 damage ONCE on YOUR turn without concentration variant.