D&D 5E Reworking Spell Lists (Reducing "Sameyness")

[TwoSix]

When in doubt, change the least right? So leave the Bard as a full caster with Divination/Enchantment/Illusion. Seems like the right flavor country to me.

All are welcome in Flavor Town!

 

[DND_Reborn]

Wow, it looks really good when it's all laid out like that! I think the themes of the different lists come across really well now.

I know pretty much everyone will have different opinions as to the best way to modify classes to fit into the new paradigm, so I'll just throw my hat into the ring. Maybe provide some inspiration.

Cleric - Spells from Divine list, modify domains to only provide spells from the Divine list.

Druid - Spells from Primal list, modify any CIrcle spells to only be Primal spells.

Sorcerer - Spells from Arcane list. Divine Soul allows spells to be picked from Divine List instead of, not in addition to. Sorcerer points recharge on a short rest.

Wizard - Can learn spells from any spell list into their spell book. At 1st level, must pick 3 oppositional schools (necromancy, abjuration, etc.) that they cannot put into their spellbook.

Paladin - Spells from Divine list. Changed to spells known caster, progression as ranger.

Ranger - Spells from Primal list.

Warlock - Spells from Arcane list. Change to standard half-caster progression, spells known from Arcane list. Eldritch blast as class feature, 1 beam for 1d10+Cha at 1st, 2 beams at 5th, 3 beams at 11th. (I never liked how the 4th beam stepped on fighter's toes, and there isn't any damage cantrip progression anymore to compare with.) Invocations increased (1 extra at 3th, 7th, 10th, 13th, so 12 total at 20th level). Invocations that grant spells 1/long rest do not require a slot.

Bard - I'm struggling with bard. I like the "all list half-caster" symmetry, but it would also be in a good spot as a full caster with access to all Divination, Enchantment, Illusion only. Maybe extra magical secrets as well.

Yea, I agree at this point people will probably handle things a bit differently. As laid out in the OP, I like the full-caster/half-caster dynamic for the four pairs and will stick with it.

However, I do like the idea of bumping the bard a bit, and I am thinking of a Mystic Arcanum-style feature to bards. They can choose one spell for levels 6-9 each, and use that spell once per short rest. I am also thinking of making bardic inspiration dice number equal to proficiency bonus plus CHA modifier. This would increase the number of uses, which in my (limited) experience has been a problem with bards.

Another adjustments will be made, of course, but by and large I think most of the classes can remain the same, gaining the same additional spells via subclasses, etc.

 

[Minigiant]

I'd go

1. Wizard- Full Arcane
2. Cleric- Full caster Divine
   1. Life- ???
   2. Light- Some Arcane
   3. Knowldge- Some Primal
   4. Nature- Some Primal
   5. Tempest- Some Primal
3. Druid- Full Primal
4. Sorcerer- Full
   1. Dragon-Arcane
   2. Wild-Arcane
   3. Divine Soul- Divine
   4. Storm- Divine
5. Paladin- Half Divine
6. Ranger- Half Primal
7. Warlock- Half Arcane

But something feels off.

 

[DND_Reborn]

I'd go

1. Wizard- Full Arcane
2. Cleric- Full caster Divine
   1. Life- ???
   2. Light- Some Arcane
   3. Knowldge- Some Primal
   4. Nature- Some Primal
   5. Tempest- Some Primal
3. Druid- Full Primal
4. Sorcerer- Full
   1. Dragon-Arcane
   2. Wild-Arcane
   3. Divine Soul- Divine
   4. Storm- Divine
5. Paladin- Half Divine
6. Ranger- Half Primal
7. Warlock- Half Arcane

But something feels off.

LOL, maybe that you forgot Bard?

 

[Minigiant]

LOL, maybe that you forgot Bard?

No
No
That's not it
It's sumthin else

Bacause I already know I have no idea what to do with Bards without invalidating Paladin, Ranger, and Warlock.

 

[DND_Reborn]

No
No
That's not it
It's sumthin else

Bacause I already know I have no idea what to do with Bards without invalidating Paladin, Ranger, and Warlock.

Well, for one thing I see that sort of bugs me personally is that Sorcerer is all over the place depending on bloodline choice.

For bard, I would maybe make it a universal caster, but reduce known spells or limit something else to make up for the huge versatility boost. My choice was to make them a half-caster more like in 3E IIRC.

 

[Minigiant]

Well, for one thing I see that sort of bugs me personally is that Sorcerer is all over the place depending on bloodline choice.

For bard, I would maybe make it a universal caster, but reduce known spells or limit something else to make up for the huge versatility boost. My choice was to make them a half-caster more like in 3E IIRC.

Yeah those both bother me

1. How to handle the various bloodlines of Sorcerers if Wizards are Arcane full casters
2. How to handle Bards to not make Warlocks look terrible.
3. How to handle Bards to not make Paladins and Rangers look terrible.

The full casters aren't samey but now the half casters are.

 

[DND_Reborn]

Yeah those both bother me

1. How to handle the various bloodlines of Sorcerers if Wizards are Arcane full casters
2. How to handle Bards to not make Warlocks look terrible.
3. How to handle Bards to not make Paladins and Rangers look terrible.

The full casters aren't samey but now the half casters are.

Striking the balance that makes you happy really is a matter of preference. I am very pleased with my distribution as presented in the OP, but I understand for many people that won't make them happy.

For the various bloodlines, domains, patrons, colleges, or whatever, I am just allowing those to remain unchanged. It allows from some overlap and a bit of sameyness, but not nearly enough to concern me personally.

 

[TwoSix]

Striking the balance that makes you happy really is a matter of preference. I am very pleased with my distribution as presented in the OP, but I understand for many people that won't make them happy.

For the various bloodlines, domains, patrons, colleges, or whatever, I am just allowing those to remain unchanged. It allows from some overlap and a bit of sameyness, but not nearly enough to concern me personally.

After some more thought, I'm OK with leaving the domains as is. I think the spell lists and the lack of cantrips is already providing a good amount of differentiation.

 

[DND_Reborn]

After some more thought, I'm OK with leaving the domains as is. I think the spell lists and the lack of cantrips is already providing a good amount of differentiation.

That was pretty much might thought as well. I am going to revamp Bard slightly, more akin to Warlock as a "semi"-half-caster. Otherwise, the classes will largely remain unchanged. I have also made up a new spell slot progression chart for Wizards, but that in conjunction with being the "universal" caster now is probably too much a boost.