Selling items : illogical rule ?

[James McMurray]

1) Some people . . .
2) There is the real value of something, . . .
2b) Put mostly anything up on eBay, and you . . .
3) Supply and demand. It goes two ways. . .
4) Spotting people who make up the . .
4b) Adventurers are they rise in power . . .

Can I make a suggestion? I like lists too. They help organize points and make responding much simpler. However, if you'll add an extra line between each point they won't run together so badly, and will be easier to read.

 

[Kraydak]

Its "points of light" not "huge swaths of light" or "points of darkness". Adventurers are few and far between. That is the point of them being adventurers and being special.

Adventurers may be few and far between. They also can travel the breadth of the world in a heartbeat, cheaper than they could travel across a country on foot. So we have two results:
(1) if the world has lots of darkness, the world is either doomed in *very* short order or the world has lots of adventurers. Lots of adventuers+linked portal=liquid magic item economy. Few adventurers=world goes bye-bye.
(2) PoL?! BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!11!111!!! There ain't no such thing in a world with Linked Portal. At best, you have a closely linked set of "points of light" that function as a single (massively powerful) entity with multiple geographic locations. Remember: your military might depends on high level characters, for whom distance (between points of interest) is meaningless. Your entire (real) army can cross the entire world in 10 minutes.

 

[Kraydak]

Why? I have already explained to you how the economic model is consistent. You do not have to be stupid to make rational decisions based on the utility of cash now versus cash later.

ed: Grabuto, now you are just being mean.

No. What you are missing is that the magic item economy in 4e will, inevitably, be liquid. It follows that
(1) there will be magic item brokers.
(2) the profit margin of magic item brokers will be relatively narrow because the turn-around is fast (huge market=liquid MI economy).

 

[Goumindong]

So now your argument is "I don't like the setting and want to change it so the rules which work perfectly fine(in both i might add) don't work anymore"?

You have been presented with multiple instances where, in large, global, and developed economies you have the 20% sale/100% buy. You have been presented with the theoretical examples of when this happens and why it conforms to magic items.

You have been presented with a way in which you can, if you want, using the rules as written in the DMG for you to use, do exactly what you want to do so long as you are willing to role play it.

You have been presented with the reasoning behind the decision for the 1/5 rule(I.E. because specific wealth balance is important).

Yet you are still adamant in getting around it without using the rules put in place for you to do exactly that. We get it, you don't want to role play.

 

[darkrose50]

Since you are well-versed in economics, are you also unhappy with the inelastic cost of mundane items? Shouldn't the rules include a chart that modifies the cost of an item based on its distance from the commodity used to craft the item and the quality and safety of the roads used to transport the commodity. The 1st edition DMG had a probibility curve in the first few pages to explain the difference between d8 and 2d4. Maybe 4E should have a demand curve and rules for modifying the cost of items based on demand from a variety of variables (war, banditry, long peace). And supply changes such as newly discovered mines, improved roads. There are also labor costs to consider. Is there a guild that might artifically increase prices? Recent depopulation that depresses the value of labor? Lets also not forget comparative advantage. The Dwarves may be better at making plate and leather armor. Do they make both or let the humans make the leather and concetrate on plate? How does this impact cost?

One does not need to be well versed in economics to see that the rule is silly from an economic standpoint.

A rule does not need to be complex not to suck. Simple is sometimes great!

 

[darkrose50]

If I want to play an intelligent, wise character in 4e, I have to choose:
(1) don't play the character.
(2) break the economic model to pieces.
The economic model is *so* bad that I would have to deliberately not role-play to avoid breaking the model. Beer-and-pretzel games FTW! Role-playing FTL!

Thank you.

The sell everything for 20% rule equates to everyone must play a character that either does not care about economics, or is a moron.

I will make the choices on how I will play my character, thank you Mr. sucky "sell everything for 20%" rule.

 

[Kraydak]

You have been presented with multiple instances where, in large, global, and developed economies you have the 20% sale/100% buy. You have been presented with the theoretical examples of when this happens and why it conforms to magic items.

No I have not. If you have good examples that translate to magic items, please give them. I have not seen any.

 

[GnomeWorks]

Since you are well-versed in economics, are you also unhappy with the inelastic cost of mundane items? Shouldn't the rules include a chart that modifies the cost of an item based on its distance from the commodity used to craft the item and the quality and safety of the roads used to transport the commodity. The 1st edition DMG had a probibility curve in the first few pages to explain the difference between d8 and 2d4. Maybe 4E should have a demand curve and rules for modifying the cost of items based on demand from a variety of variables (war, banditry, long peace). And supply changes such as newly discovered mines, improved roads. There are also labor costs to consider. Is there a guild that might artifically increase prices? Recent depopulation that depresses the value of labor? Lets also not forget comparative advantage. The Dwarves may be better at making plate and leather armor. Do they make both or let the humans make the leather and concetrate on plate? How does this impact cost?

Some interesting points here.

I wonder how one would go about addressing them in a game system meant to at least imitate a real-world economy...

 

[DLichen]

Hm, I think it would require quite a systems overhaul.

First you would have to determine what the layout of said world was and how dense population is and how good transportation is.

Then how common adventurers are.

Then you would have to determine the relative prices of goods and services so people can actually get what they need to survive at a reasonable price.

Once you get essential commodities down, then you need to key non-essential luxury goods off those.

 

[darkrose50]

IRL people who buy used goods at 20% retail DO NOT turn around and sell them at 100% of retail.

Collectable items are worth money new, or used. And you know what? People collect all sorts of oddball stuff. Go look at eBay. My father spots this crap at garage sales and such all the time. $0.50 can turn into hundreds of dollars.

The 20% rule is based on the cost to make something. So if it costs $0.10 to make some doohickey that retails for $2, than you get 20% of $0.10, not 20% of $2.00. And that is just stupid.