Should you be able to dodge a fireball by readying an action?

[Hypersmurf]

However, I don't see how my interpretation -- that declared actions don't get to be re-declared just because they're spells -- is unsupported.

The action isn't re-declared; the action is still casting the Fireball spell. It's just that because the spell has not yet come into effect, pertinent decisions haven't been made (and thus declared) when the readied action occurs.

There's no re-declaration, because the original declaration hasn't happened.

-Hyp.

 

[Nifft]

The action isn't re-declared; the action is still casting the Fireball spell. It's just that because the spell has not yet come into effect, pertinent decisions haven't been made (and thus declared) when the readied action occurs.

There's no re-declaration, because the original declaration hasn't happened.

If it hadn't happened, my triggered action ("... when he attacks me") wouldn't have gone off.

That's where I'm having a problem.

IMHO it's clearer to say the Wizard attacked me, but I was already behind the wall by the time he finished his spell. How would you describe the action in your interpretation?

I just see a conceptual disconnect between the melee fighter's wasted attack vs. the Wizard's flexibility in choosing who to attack after his targets get their readied actions.

Cheers, -- N

 

[Thurbane]

I disagree. Arrows are fast enough to represent the fireball bead IMO.

Duration: Instantaneous

It's not instantaneous or else it would be teleporting to the destination and intervening objects could not get in the way.

Speed of light, perhaps?

 

[Hypersmurf]

IMHO it's clearer to say the Wizard attacked me, but I was already behind the wall by the time he finished his spell. How would you describe the action in your interpretation?

If you're already behind the wall by the time he finishes his spell, then you're already behind the wall before the spell comes into effect, which means he makes all pertinent decisions after you are behind the wall, and can select a point of origin elsewhere.

The spell doesn't come into effect until he finishes casting it, so if you move before he finishes, you're moving before he makes his decisions.

-Hyp.

 

[Nifft]

If you're already behind the wall by the time he finishes his spell, then you're already behind the wall before the spell comes into effect, which means he makes all pertinent decisions after you are behind the wall, and can select a point of origin elsewhere.

The spell doesn't come into effect until he finishes casting it, so if you move before he finishes, you're moving before he makes his decisions.

So how did his attack trigger my readied action?

Remember:
1/ I can't move until he attacks me.
2/ He can't attack me until the spell is complete.
3/ You're saying he can't have completed the spell until after I move.

IMHO your interpretation does not resolve this simultaneity issue.

Cheers, -- N

 

[Zurai]

Duration: Instantaneous

That has absolutely nothing to do with anything relating to whether you can intercept a fireball with an arrow. Spell duration only refers to the length of time the magic of the spell is in effect. The fact that fireball is instantaneous just means it can't be dispelled once it's been cast. It doesn't have anything to do with how long it takes the bead to travel. In support: wall of stone is also instantaneous. Does that mean you cannot shoot an arrow at it? Why then does it have specific rules for how you damage it?

Oh yeah, in addition: Arrows are actually faster than fireballs in D&D terms. A level 6 archer can fire two arrows 1100 feet in 3 seconds. A level 6 wizard can only shoot a fireball 640 feet in the same 3 seconds.

 

[RangerWickett]

That has absolutely nothing to do with anything relating to whether you can intercept a fireball with an arrow. Spell duration only refers to the length of time the magic of the spell is in effect. The fact that fireball is instantaneous just means it can't be dispelled once it's been cast. It doesn't have anything to do with how long it takes the bead to travel. In support: wall of stone is also instantaneous. Does that mean you cannot shoot an arrow at it? Why then does it have specific rules for how you damage it?

Oh yeah, in addition: Arrows are actually faster than fireballs in D&D terms. A level 6 archer can fire two arrows 1100 feet in 3 seconds. A level 6 wizard can only shoot a fireball 640 feet in the same 3 seconds.

Heck, if we go by d20 Modern rules, a high-powered sniper rifle has a maximum range of 1200 ft. (1800 ft. with far shot). It's not much faster than an arrow, apparently. *grin*

 

[Zurai]

For the record, I would allow a character to attempt to shoot down a fireball bead, but I would require them to make the spellcraft check to identify the fireball as it's being cast so they can loose the attack the instant the bead appeared.

A fireball would also be a hard target to hit. Fine size is 3-6 inches, Fine- is 1.5-3 inches, Fine-- is 0.75-1.5 inches, and Fine--- is 0.375-0.75 inches. Fireball is described as a "pea-sized bead". I'd put it at Fine--- or Fine---- size, which gives it a base AC of 74 or 138. In other words: yes, you can attempt to fire at it. You'll need a natural 20 to hit a target that small, however.

 

[mvincent]

Fine size is 3-6 inches, Fine- is 1.5-3 inches, Fine-- is 0.75-1.5 inches, and Fine--- is 0.375-0.75 inches. Fireball is described as a "pea-sized bead". I'd put it at Fine--- or Fine---- size, which gives it a base AC of 74 or 138.

I don't believe pea-sized objects in D&D have a 74+ AC due to size. Is there anything to support that (other than extrapolating the "Size and Armor Class of Objects" table farther than intended)?

... split pea soup would be exceeding hard to make, even at epic levels...

 

[Zurai]

The size bonus/penalties to AC double with every step <shrug> 3E doesn't actually have rules for creatures/objects smaller than Fine or larger than Collossal, I don't think. This is all in House Rule territory anyway, so it really only exists as a justification for "you need to roll a natural 20 or be a high Epic character to hit it".